Flash Videos fail on YouTube

download youtube downloader from www.soft32.com or www.softpedia.com. after
downloaded try to run it with wine and it should work perfectly and very
much fast.

On Sun, Apr 12, 2009 at 7:01 AM, Michael J. Kelly <
<email address hidden>> wrote:

> New question #67184 on Ubuntu:
> https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/67184
>
> Videos play a few seconds at a time. Some must be played through and then
> can be replayed. Hulu can only be viewed in 2-4 second increments no matter
> what. In general videos are far too time consuming. I have followed various
> instructions from the help pages to no avail. I hate windows, but videos
> played instantly on this computer before that system self distructed.
>
> --
> You received this question notification because you are an answer
> contact for Ubuntu.
>

Other things to increase flash performance with youtube videos include right clicking on the video and choosing the settings option, then in the settings disable hardware acceleration. Also turn off desktop effects for better performance.

Adobe Flashplayer for linux could do with a little tuning by Adobe. It's performance is far below the windows equivalent.

Thank you for your advice. I am familiar with wine,but have no idea how to install or utilize it after it is downloaded. Any way, if nothing else it is great to just see the Window Fucker moniker. I hate Windows as much as I do commercial radio and almost as much as Walmart.--MisterMisanthrope

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I don't know if it's pertinent, but I am unable to enable desktop effects. Thanks--MJK

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If you can't enable desktop effects, you may have a bad driver for your graphics card. Have you enabled the restricted driver that may be found in System-->Administration--> Hardware Drivers

What is your graphics card?

Disabling hardware acceleration had no effect. Thank you any way.--MJK

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a window says "no proprietary drivers are in use on this system" when I go to system>admin.>hardware drivers. Thankyou. MJK.

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Hi Michael -

Just wanted to say that if you don't find what you need here, there's a *huge* amount of information available about flash problems, streaming video problems, etc. in the ubuntu user forums proper. I'd suggest that "Multimedia & Video" help forum at http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=334 would be a good place to start; there's a "sticky" posts at the top of that forum that might be helpful.

I will also say that flash & streaming video problems seem to be among the most vexing and the most difficult to fix, based on what I've seen in the ubuntu forums. Long, involved, multi-day threads where people are trying a gazillion different "fixes", without success, seem to be pretty common, unfortunately. I love ubuntu, but I don't think its strongest supporters would say its ability to play flash-based video is all that one could wish for. It does handle the .mp4 video format beautifully, but that doesn't help with flash content, of course.

My own experience with flash content, and with Hulu in particular, has been just maddening. I was in the middle of watching a Hulu video about six weeks ago ( on www.fancast.com ) when I noticed the "updates available" icon on my screen ( Hardy Heron, verson 8.04 LTS ) was present. So I stopped the video, exited Firefox, applied the recommended updates, and then rebooted. I then immediately returned to fancast.com, and found I could no longer watch videos there at all. I was still able to watch youtube videos, and videos from every other site I cared to, but no Hulu/fancast any more.

Just fyi, I had been able to watch them just fine, as well as with Vista re playback speed, smoothness, sound quality, etc. The only problem had been that sometimes the fullscreen video playback mode would leave the lower "control bar" ( widgets, volume control, etc. ) in the middle of the screen, instead of at the bottom, where it belongs, when I switched from viewing using the "in a window" mode to the fullscreen playback mode. Don't mean to tanalize you, but thought you should know that it *is* possible to view flash video content from Hulu, or at least it *was*, but that my own experience is that Hulu is the most problematic site I've found on the web re trying to play streaming video using Ubuntu.

I've spent at least 30 or 40 hours trying to restore my previous video-watching ability under Hardy Heron 8.04, have exchanged multiple and lengthy communications with others who have suggested one fix or another, and read what seems like a mountain of documentation. I've re-installed flash and firefox multiple times, installed various supporting libraries, discovered a bug in some of the libraries that support firefox, posted a bug report, and, in general, learned much, much more about flash on ubuntu than I ever wanted to know. All without success, re fixing the problem.

I've finally given up trying to tweak my current install to fix this; my next step is to re-install the operating system. But I'm not going to even *try* to re-install flash. It's proprietary, Adobe is one of the worst abusers of any major software company re privacy, and their product is a huge source of problems on ubuntu.

Instead, I'm going to try to use gnash, an open source alternative to flash. It's anyone's guess as to whether it'll work on Hulu ( I kind of doubt it, given how fussy Hulu/fancast is), but users report good success with streaming video elsewhere. Unfortunately, the default installation package that the Hardy Heron release of Ubuntu makes available for gnash is only at version 0.82, whereas the current release thereof is at version 0.85 ; the gnash developers say that version 0.82 is really too old to work well on, e.g. youtube. But I did find that some ubuntu users have created their own ubuntu packages for versions 0.84 and 0.85 in their "Personal Package Archive" on launchpad, for various releases of Ubuntu ( Hardy, Intrepid, Janunty ), so that should make installation pretty straightforward anyway, even if the "officially available" version of gnash remains 0.82 for a while longer.

I do hope you're able to solve your problem easily and quickly, but I did think it might help to give you a bit of a caution, too, that it might not be so straightforward a process for you, especially regarding Hulu or fancast.com.

- best of luck, ami

Thank you for all that information. My problem is that I have no technical knowledge so I can't begin to comprehend a lot of the advice I get. I wanted to install gnash but have no idea of how to follow the instructions (I have no idea what kind of graphics card I have nor how to find out e.g.). Sadly, I think that Windows is the only option for someone like me. I only use my computer for e-mail, and web access for the most part and I would like to be able to watch video. Thanks again.--MJK.

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Ok Michael, if you like lets start with Q&A and keep it rational to gain a satisfying solution for you.
Even as a nontechnical user, you'll sure can tell what kind of installation you have and what kind of computer.
#1
Is it a laptop or desktop computer?
#2
Is MS Windows still on the machine or only Ubuntu?
When you boot (start) the computer, is there a boot menu, then a black background with a moving orange bar and then a graphical screen where you login with your user password?
Example of boot menu: ##with Ubuntu only; if MS is installed also it will appear in this list
http://media.ubuntuusers.de/wiki/attachments/40/28/recoverymodus.png
#3
How did you install Ubuntu, from CD, DVD?
#4
Do you know how to use the terminal?
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/GnomeTerminal

We will need comprehensive information, so we will have to deal with #4, but don't worry, after your problem is solved you'll enjoy this tool.

In the meantime you may become acquainted with Ubuntu:
https://help.ubuntu.com/
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SystemTools
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/CommonQuestions

I have a V2 Premier desktop with977.2MiB and an Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4CPU 3.40 GHz. It no longer has windows. I installed Ubuntu 8.10 Desktop edition from a CD. I have attempted to solve this problem using the help resources and have used the terminal in doing so. Thank You--MJK.

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Thanks for the information.

Did you install more than one flash player?
If yes, you have to make a decision which one you like to use, to avoid conflicts with dependencies and using an older version.
e.g. either gnash, swfdec, adobe

Please post terminal output of: ##note that commands are case sensitive, you may copy&paste
uname -m

ls .mozilla/plugins

ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/

ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/

lspci -v |grep VGA

grep drivers /var/log/Xorg.0.log

glxinfo | grep rendering

##btw. you may play YouTube videos in Totem. ##applications -> sound&video
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MultimediaApplications#Totem

##To actually download YouTube videos you may take a look at
youtube-dl
it's a command-line tool which is available via Synaptic
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto

Post commands? I typed ls .mozillaplugins/ and got a message "could not access...no such file or directory" in the terminal window. Thank you.

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Hi Michael -

> "Post commands?"

Yes, you have the right idea about what Sam meant by "Post commands". I think the word "Post" might be a little confusing because you're probably using your e-mail program to follow and respond to this series of messages.

That's perfectly fine, although it might be a little easier for you to make sense of everything if you were to use the "Launchpad Answers" forum directly, by going to https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/firefox-3.0/+question/67184 in your web browser.

That will allow you to see the entire "thread" of messages that have been posted at once. And if you log in to Launchpad by finding the small "Log in" phrase at the upper right corner of that web page ( it appears there just to the left of the word "Register", also in the upper right corner ) then when you scroll to the bottom of the page you'll find a place where you can just type your reply directly, without having to use your e-mail program at all. Copies of everything will still be sent to your e-mail, as well, but you won't need to respond to them via e-mail if you use the forum's web page directly.

In order to help figure out your problem, Sam was asking you to provide information about how your computer is set up.

But it can be hard to read and re-type seven commands in a row without making a mistake, especially when you're not familiar with what the commands mean, and they just look like Greek to you. So I'd like to reiterate Sam's suggestion that you use your computer's copy-and-paste ability, instead of trying to type the commands manually. And it would be still easier for you, I think, if you just copy the text below, all at once, into a terminal window on your computer:

uname -m; ls .mozilla/plugins; ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/; ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/; lspci -v | grep VGA; grep drivers /var/log/Xorg.0.log; glxinfo | grep rendering

If you already know how to copy-and-paste, then you can skip over the instructions about how to do that which follow below. If you don't know how to copy-and-paste, it's just three simple steps: Highlight, Copy, and Paste.

First make sure you have a terminal window open. Then,

(1) Do the "Highlight" step: Move your mouse pointer to the very beginning of the confusing-looking "sentence" of commands that I listed just above, just to the left of the letter "u" in "uname", in other words. Next, press the left mouse button while you move the mouse pointer to the end of the text you want to copy, to the end of the letter "g" in the word "rendering", in this case, and release the mouse button. The whole sentence, starting with "uname" and ending with "rendering" should now be highlighted if you did this right.

(2) The next step is the "copy" part: With the the text you want to copy highlighted, because of what you did above, move the mouse pointer so it's located anywhere on the highlighted "sentence". Then click the *right* mouse button. That should bring up a menu next to your mouse pointer that has the option "Copy" on it. Select "Copy" from that menu.

(3) Now for the "Paste" part: Move your mouse out of the window that you're reading this message in, and over to the terminal window that you opened previously. Left click anywhere on that window, to make it active, and then click the *right* mouse button, which will again bring up the menu that you saw before. But instead of selecting "Copy", you'll now want to select "Paste" from that menu. This should make the confusing "sentence" of commands appear in your terminal window. Then just press the "Enter" key on the keyboard to actually run that "sentence" of commands.

( Please note that you should not run commands in your terminal window that you don't understand unless you feel you can trust the person who suggests those commands to you. The terminal window has great "user help" information available - which I can explain how to use in a separate message, if you're interested - so it's pretty easy to verify what any command will do before you try it, if you have any doubts. )

Anway, if you used copy-and-paste successfully, you'll get some confusing looking output generated by the computer. The output that appears on your computer won't look exactly like the output below, because our computers are different, and I don't have flash player installed, but it'll be somewhat similar to this:

i686
ls: cannot access /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/: No such file or directory
ls: cannot access /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/: No such file or directory
00:02.0 VGA compatible controller: Intel Corporation Mobile GM965/GL960 Integrated Graphics Controller (rev 03) (prog-if 00 [VGA controller])
(II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//intel_drv.so
direct rendering: Yes

The "confusing looking output" from your own computer that's similar to this output from mine, above, is the information that Sam was asking for. ( If you have flash player installed, you'll see at least one less "No such file or directory" messages, by the way. )

So if you've made it this far, all you need to do next is use the copy-and-paste feature a second time, to send or post the output results generated in your terminal window back to the Launchpad help forum where Sam can review them.

You needn't worry that you'll be disclosing anything you shouldn't disclose in doing so, by the way. There's no private information about your computer that results from running those commands, nothing that uniquely identifies you or your computer.

I'll try to keep up with this thread (series of messages) myself, but I think Sam's going to have to be the one to provide the more specific technical assistance, given my own relative inexperience with video playback under linux/ubuntu.

( By the way, Sam, thank you for stepping up so graciously to help Michael after I basically vented/ranted about my own video playback troubles. I really shouldn't have subjected him to that. Besides, I've certainly had many more "marathon-level" problems with XP and Vista than I've ever experienced with Ubuntu! And that's not even counting the virus and virus-prevention hassles that are so much a part of using Microsoft products. )

Anyway, Michael, please don't give up on Ubuntu/linux because of my misdirected and discouraging rant. I love Ubuntu, and I'd be very unhappy to think that I'd driven anyone back into the clutches of the Evil Empire in Redmond! ;)

So let us know what your system reports back in response to the commands Sam suggested, and I'm sure that between his help, and that of other users who are more knowledable about video playback than I am, the problems you report will be fixed in short order.

cheers,

- ami

uname -m; ls .mozilla/plugins; ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/; ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/; lspci -v | grep VGA; grep drivers /var/log/Xorg.0.log; glxinfo | grep rendering
i686
ls: cannot access .mozilla/plugins: No such file or directory
libflashplayer.so
libflashplayer.so
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. CN700/P4M800 Pro/P4M800 CE/VN800 [S3 UniChrome Pro] (rev 01)
(II) Scanning /usr/share/xserver-xorg/pci directory for additional PCI ID's supported by the drivers
(II) Loading /usr/lib/xorg/modules/drivers//openchrome_drv.so
direct rendering: Yes
Is this what Sam is looking for? I feel like a kite runner in a room full of shuttle pilots! Thank you. --MJK

Michael J. Kelly wrote,

> Is this what Sam is looking for? I feel like a kite runner in a room full of shuttle pilots!

Yes, that's it alright.

But your second sentence is one of the funniest expressions I've heard in weeks! Reminds me of some "good old boy" witticisms from America's deep South, but far more amusing, because so unexpected, and put into a modern context. I'll plagarize the expression shamelessly, I want you to know. ;)

I do understand what you mean, though, and sympathize with it. Command-line (i.e. "terminal" ) syntax in the Linux/Ubuntu world follows after the Unix operating system, and it can be pretty cryptic.

The early creators of Unix seemed to have a mortal fear of vowels, and of using too many letters, in the names of the infrastrucure programs they created. So instead of "list", or even the "dir" that the DOS/Windows side uses for the name of the program a user invokes to list the contents of a directory from a command line, Unix/Linux users have to learn to type in simply "ls". You saw that above, e.g. in the three commands,

ls .mozilla/plugins
ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/
ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/

The forward slashes, above, separate the names of directories or "folders", if you prefer that term. That's almost identical to how it's done on the Windows side; there a backwards slash is used for the same purpose.

The "uname" command is short for "Unix Name", as I remember it. Depending upon the parameters that you type in after it, the command can return the "name" of the Unix or Linux implementation your machine is using; the name you gave to the computer when you installed Ubuntu; or, if the "-m" parameter is used, the general name for the class of the computer you're using. That's where the "i686" output that you saw from your machine came from; it's a kind of (very) loose designation for a family of Intel Corporation central processing unit (CPU) chips.

I didn't remember the info about the parameters for the uname command, incidentally. I cheated! I typed

uname --help

into a terminal window to view them. For more in-depth information I could have typed

man uname

which means "show me the online MANual pages for the uname program". That's an immensely useful command, "man" is, but you need to know two things to use it or you'll get stuck. One is that you need to press the space bar to move forward from the manual "page" that you're seeing on your screen, in order to view the next page about the command you're interested in. The second is that when you reach the final page of information about how to use the command, you have to press the letter "q" on your keyboard to *quit*, or the terminal window will appear to be locked up. There's a nice web page at http://linuxcommand.org/reading_man_pages.php if you're interested in this futher.

This is probably "TMI" ( too much information ) for you at this point, but I wanted you to at least have the tools you'd need to learn what the commands Sam suggested actually meant, if you wanted to do so. I didn't want to just say "type this! type that!" without giving you the means to understand what you were doing. I'll just also add that despite how confusing all this must seem at this point, I *promise* it will seem like no big deal if you look back on it in a few weeks. It's always that way at first, and it's pretty amazing what soaks in just pretty much by osmosis.

Anyway, I'll defer to Sam or others for the actual review of your computer's terminal output since, as I've said, my own understanding about how to diagnose and correct video playback problems is pretty limited.

cheers,

- Ami

Thanks for the outputs Michael.
Seems there are two flash players installed.
The official one through package manager Synaptic:
path: /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/libflashplayer.so

and this one from the .deb archive of Adobe
path: /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/libflashplayer.so

However, you can find all this by opening Nautilus too and just navigate to the path.

Reference:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash
http://library.gnome.org/users/user-guide/stable/nautilus-presentation.html.en

Now you may decide which one to keep in order to get flash working.
Please note,
- the one directly from Adobe wont get automatically updated, you'll have to remove the old one before installing the new one and it's probably a newer version.
- flashplugin-nonfree is, as said, installed via package manger, hence it will get updated automatically.

##Since you use Intrepid on a 32Bit architecture, flashplugin-nonfree would be a consistent choice, including to avoid conflicts. Just my two cents.

####

Unfortunately I don't know your graphic card, but you are using an opensource driver. So in order to get Compiz (3D advanced desktop effects) working, you may consider to install a restricted driver. Since this isn't trivial, you may search for your graphic card and ask in ubuntuforums.org for help on this.

In general we can try to make Compiz work when the flashplayer issue is solved. Please ask a new question then about the compiz issue in order to make it easier for others finding help on each issue, thanks.

#Edited question for a better overview.

Hi Michael,

As Sam says, you do seem to have both available versions of flash installed on your system, and it's true that you should probably only have one. But I need to engage in a little "techspeak" here, for Sam, about which one you should be using, and about what to do next. Plug your ears and make motorboat sounds with your mouth for a couple of paragraphs, will you? ;)

Sorry, Michael; I'm just kidding, of course, and absolutely the last thing I intend is to be in any way condescending. All I really mean is that it'll be much more concise at this point if I can make temporary use of some terminology that Sam probably knows and that you shouldn't worry at all about not understanding, because there's no way that a relatively new user could. I'll return to talking like a human being again in my next post, though. ( Or at least I'll *try* to; sometimes I have difficulty with that. ;) So, then ...

@Sam:

(1) The Intrepid section of the "RestrictedFormats/Flash" page your second link, above, points to - see https://help.ubuntu.com/community/RestrictedFormats/Flash#Ubuntu%208.10%20(Intrepid%20Ibex) - specifically recommends that Intrepid systems should use the newer adobe-flashplugin package, rather than the older flashplugin-nonfree package. This is because, as the section says,

"The flashplugin-nonfree package has had a history of breaking temporarily when Adobe releases a new version of the player, so getting the latest version directly from Adobe (via the partner repository) may be preferrable."

(2) The "via the partner repository" mentioned in that quotation just above is archive.canonical.com/main. In Hardy that repository becomes accessible when the user adds it by selecting System > Administration > Software Sources > Third Party Sources ( a tab ) , and marks the checkbox next to that repository. The process appears to be the same for Intrepid, based on what the "RestrictedFormats" page you cited has to say about it:

- Enable the Third-party software repository if you have not yet done so.
- Install the package adobe-flashplugin
- Restart your browser. Flash should now work.

(3) It's rather a muddle to me, since we appear to have three possible sources for a flash package,

adobe-flashplugin from archive.canonical.com/main
flashplugin-nonfree from mirrors.us.kernel.org/multiverse
install_flash_player_10_linux.deb from Adobe's own web site

and because I'm not convinced that the first and the third packages are identical.

(4) So maybe I'm missing something here, but I *am* sure that once you've enabled the "Third-party software repository" mentioned in the instructions on the page you linked to, and pasted in, above, that adobe-flashplugin is installable from within Synaptic just as easily as the older flashplugin-nonfree is. I've installed and uninstalled the package in Hardy, anyway, and the instructions seem to make it clear that the same process works for Intrepid.

(5) Since adobe-flashplugin is installed via Synaptic, and since it's maintained by Canonical, then I suspect that (contrary to your post?) it probably *is* subject to periodic automatic updates, as well, just like libflashplugin-nonfree is.

So, Sam, based on what I've seen so far, I'm thinking the next thing to try would be to look in Firefox to see which (if any) flash player is active, close Firefox, enter Synaptic, check the box next to flashplugin-nonfree as "Mark for complete removal", apply the change, startup Firefox again, see how youtube looks, and go from there.

The principal caveat about that approach is that I've read that there might be more to it. Tweaking the Firefox or Mozilla profiles, deleting or touching files like e.g. /usr/lib/xulrunner-1.9.0.7/components/compreg.dat, and a bunch of other things have reached my ears (well, "eyes" actually) as being necessary. ( ATTENTION PLEASE: Don't anyone try this; I'm just speculating here. )

Further, there's conflicting info out there as to whether you can really uninstall flash fully, using just Synaptic.

I think it's worth trying, nevertheless. What do you think?

( As a somewhat off-topic/editorial comment, I'll say that I've thought seriously about signing up for fee-based support from Canonical. I might just go ahead with that if the O/S re-install I'll get around to soon doesn't solve my own video playback problems. Disclaimer: I have no personal or commercial affiliation, just another user here. But ... what is it for 9-5 support, USD$ 250 per year? I enjoy fiddling around with computers as an end in itself to a certain extent, but USD$ 20 per month, plus some change, doesn't sound so bad if it'd buy you someone to call who you know has solved similar problems at least a few dozen times before. )

@ Michael, again:

Sorry to put you to sleep with this, but I'd feel a lot more comfortable making a recommendation for your next step, with Sam's assistance, and with the assistance of any others who've had more (successful) experience addressing video problems than I have myself ....

Hint, hint ... anyone? ... anyone? ;)

cheers,

- ami

Well, here's news:

After I finished the previous post I decided I'd download the install_flash_player_10_linux.deb package available directly from Adobe's web page, via my browser, just to have a little closer look at what would happen.

I downloaded the package to my desktop, double-clicked it, and received a pop-up notification that said, concerning adobe-flashplugin, that

"A Later Version is Available on the Software Channel. You are strongly advised to install the version from the software channel, since it is usually better supported."

This can only mean that the adobe-flashplugin available from the Canonical repository is more current than the one on-offer directly from Adobe's own web page. I suspected the two wouldn't be identical, but it's nice to have that confirmed.

Bottom line, then, would appear to be that anyone who wants adobe-flashplugin should get it via the Canonical repository rathe than from Adobe's own web site.

cheers, - ami

Open Nautilus and just navigate to the path? That sounds like advice given to Luke Skywalker from a Zen master and isn't the canonical repository in the Vatican basement? I don't speak this language, but I will try to figure this out. This may take some time. I have the same problem with the help pages--I can not follow the instuctions because I don't understand them.

Regarding desktop effects: Daniel Drummond advised turning them off, but I never had them on and don't know what they are. I only tried to turn them on out of curiosity.

No problem Michael, take your time and get a little more acquaintance of your desktop environment.
btw. the links about Synaptic and Nautilus also content screenshots.
In any case, best practice - enjoy Ubuntu -.
Ask any time again, as you did above, where in specific you need better assistance.

Lets try to remove one flash player package. Please close firefox during any procedure installing or removing applications.
##Packages are sort of wrapped up applications.

On your screen is a panel (sort of top tool bar), please open Synaptic from there:
System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/SynapticHowto?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=Synaptic-Package-Manager.png

Click on 'Search'.
Type in inbox: flashplugin-nonfree ##it'll appear in the bigger section on the right site.
Right click on it to get the context menu.
Choose remove completely.
Click on 'Apply'.
When finished click on 'Reload'.
Close Synaptic.

Now you may check terminal output of:
ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/
and
ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/

###
Nautilus is a file manager, so however you call it, browse, navigate, go, jump, move, the philosophy is to be as precise as possible and has nothing to do with specific computer language.
Open Nautilus:
Panel -> places > home folder
http://www.ubuntu.com/files/GutsyImages/Places-Menu.jpg

To reach your folders, (browse, navigate, go, jump, move).
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/Intrepid/Ubuntu_8.10_Guideline_Proposal_(Keyhole)?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=SampleNautilus2.png

Example: this key '/' stands for 'File system' and 'Hierarchy'
Example path:
Filesystem
usr
lib
adobe-flashplugin
http://library.gnome.org/users/user-guide/stable/nautilus-directories-file-systems.html.en

###
In case you may have interest in books
http://www.linuxlinks.com/article/20090405061458383/20oftheBestFreeLinuxBooks-Part1.html

As suggested before, it's possible to watch YouTube videos with Totem
Open the sidebar in Totem, choose YouTube from dropdown, type in search box e.g.
Nautilus Ubuntu or Flashplayer Ubuntu or Compiz Ubuntu
Have fun.

Hi Michael -

I like your humor. But you know more than you think you know; you've already used Nautilus:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=438504

And Canonical? See http://www.canonical.com/aboutus . It's the company the founder of Ubuntu, Mark Shuttleworth, started to bring Ubuntu to the world. It's a for-profit company, but all the software it releases as part of Ubuntu is "free and open source". That means that the source code, the actual lines of code written by programmers in languages like C, C++, Python, Perl, etc, etc, are available for free to anyone who wants them, and can be freely modified by anyone with the programming knowledge to do it.

Most of what Canonical did is to re-package software written by non-commercial open-source developers, software obtained from a lot of different places and authors, and put it into an easy to install, more user-friendly bundle ... called "Ubuntu". They don't so much write software themselves as bundle other's open-source, non-commercial software together. The desktop manager you're using (the software that provides such things as the menu that says "Applications - Places - System", the clock, the "trash" icon, etc. ) is written and maintained by the programmers of the "Gnome" project, a group that has no affiliation with Canonical or Ubuntu. The nuts-and-bolt "innards" of the operating system, what techies call the "kernel", is software from a group called the "Debian" project; that's why you'll hear people say "Ubuntu is based on Debian". The "Manual" pages for Unix/Linux "shell" commands that are accessed with the "man" command I mentioned previously, and which you used in the terminal, commands like "ls" to list the names of the files contained in a directory, come from the The Free Software Foundation and/or the "Gnu" project.

And the graphical user interface ("GUI") file manager that you access when you click on "Places" from the top menu bar, and (for example) "Home" or "Desktop" was written by the "Nautilus" project, a sub-group within the "Gnome" project. They're such humble guys that your file manager windows don't say "Nautilus" at the top, only your user name followed by the words "File Browser". But if you click "Help" > "About" > "Nautilus Web Site" you can see, among other things, that its developers and those of the Gnome window manager are scattered all across the world. Personally, I rather like that, like using an operating system that's the result of collaborators from all of across the world, almost all of them working for "love" rather than for "money". That group of folks, of which you've unknowingly become a part, by installing and using Ubuntu, is what people mean when they mention "the open source communnity". :)

Canonical employees, along with a host of volunteer members of the open-source community, stitch all this software together more or less successfully (pretty successfully, in my opinion, although glitches do arise) into one big bundle, and call it a "version" or a "release" of Ubuntu. Ubuntu 8.04, code-named "Hardy Heron" is an example, as is your own Ubuntu 8.10, code named "Intrepid Ibex". Ubuntu itself is an example of what the open-source software community calls a linux "distribution", or just "distro", for short. There are over 300 linux distributions in more or less active development currently. Ubuntu has been the most quickly-adopted distribution of all-time, I believe, kind of a meteoric rise in the open-source community. Unlike previous distributions, It has garnered users like you and me, users who aren't really compter hobbyists or "hackers" (in the good sense of that word), but mostly just wanted to use our computers as tools rather than as something to tinker with. Canonical's goal, as I understand it, is to move Ubuntu into the mainstream by making each release both more comprehensive in terms of features, and easier to use for the non-technical person who just wants to use his computer the means to an end.

You may have heard of some of the other prominent distributions such as "Red Hat", "Fedora", "Slackware", "openSUSE", "Knoppix", "Gentoo". There are also distributions derived from Ubuntu, like "Kubuntu", "EduBuntu", etc. Such distributions can be freely created by anyone with the skills to do so because, as I mentioned, Ubuntu and its "upstream" kernel, Debian, as well as its "upstream" components like Gnome, Nautilus, etc., are all "free and open-source software" ("FOSS"). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_distribution ; there's an interesting chart there (which you'll have to download to be able to read properly) that shows the complex relationships that obtain among all the linux distributions, that shows what is derived from what, what's "upstream" and what's "downstream" in the distribution world, in other words. It's such a large, worldwide "ecological system", that for all I know the Vatican could be involved! ;) One of the triumphs of worldwide, grass-roots collaboration, is the open-source software community, in my opinion, and I'm proud to be even a small part of it.

( Sniff, sniff ... ami gets all misty and "patriotic" re open-source for a moment ... )

Okay, better now. Almost ready to get back to your immediate problem. Just want to add that although Ubuntu puts together a pretty good bundle of software by default, on an installation DVD or in its downloadable form, one of the beauties of linux is that it's easy to add new software packages, replace existing ones, delete others, to customize your computer to your own particular needs and preferences. You can do this not just with what most people think of as "programs", but also with the more "infrastructure" pieces of your computer's software. Just as you can dump the Firefox browser in favor of the Opera browser, for example, you can also dump the Gnome desktop manager in favor of, say, the KDE desktop manager program.

So if you want to "stitch" some new software onto Ubuntu, or "unstitch" part of it, to replace it with something else, you use the Synaptic package manager ( System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager ) or the "apt" command line facility from a terminal window. "Apt" stands for "A Package Tool", by the way. Also relevant in the use of Synaptic is the origin of the software you want to install. By default, Ubuntu comes with a list of software "repositories" enabled that are all very, very safe to obtain software packages from, and that favors "FOSS", free and open source software. If you want something else, proprietary software like "flash", then you usually need to enable some alternative software repository; this usually means, among other things, accessing a different server on the internet.

( That's what some of the "techspeak" I directed at Sam referred to, the stuff about downloading the adobe-flash package from Adobe's web site versus enabling the "Third Party Software" archive on an internet-connected server named "archive.canonical.com". If you want to, you can have a look at that server, and directly view the repository that Canonical makes available to Ubuntu users via the Synaptic package manager by going to http://archive.canonical.com/dists/ )

Anyway, in addition to using the Synaptic package manager to install, delete, and modify the "crazy quilt" of software you're using, you also need to specify where *else*, besides the default Ubuntu software repositories, you want to be able to download software packages from. There are several ways you can do that, but the easiest way to specify alternate repositories is to just use System > Administration > Software Source, from the main menu on the desktop.

But back to your immediate problem, getting your video playback working:

Based on the output of that "sentence" of seven commands Sam and I asked you to run in your terminal, it does indeed look like you have two separate instances of Adobe's flash video player installed on your system, when you should only have one. I'm not 100% sure that's the cause of your problems, nor even 70% sure, but it might at least simplify things to have only one installed...

No guarantees that it would; the process of bringing that about could potentially make things worse. I don't think that will be the result, since the things I intend to suggest to you will be pretty conservative. I got into serious trouble on my own system by using the terminal to remove directories that I suspected of being "left behind" after I uninstalled flash and firefox for the umpteenth time, and in my frustration I seem to have removed some stuff I shouldn't have. ( Advice: If you feel like throwing your computer across the room, that's probably a sign you should take a break and stop trying to fix things for a while. ;) )

But unless Sam, or someone more experienced chimes in here, I'd recommend that you do go ahead and remove one of the two flash packages you seem to have installed on your systems. That seems a reasonable, and an appropriately conservative place to start.

Before you do so, though, let's gather a little more information, just to be as safe as we can in going about this:

Let's first see which software package "repositories" ( places to download software packages from ) are enabled on your computer. You could do so by using the sequence I mentioned above, System > Administration > Software Sources from your desktop's menu bar at the top of the screen, but a more direct method would be to do so via the terminal's command line. Open a terminal window, and copy-and-paste this command into it

grep -i '^deb http' /etc/apt/sources.list

and press enter. If it worked right, you'll see something like the following, except on your system the word "hardy" will be replaced by "intrepid":

deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy main restricted
deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy-updates main restricted
deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy universe
deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy-updates universe
deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy multiverse
deb http://mirrors.us.kernel.org/ubuntu/ hardy-updates multiverse

Next, copy the corresponding results from your terminal window and post them back to this forum thread; i.e. report those results back here, like you did before, please.

I'll be following up with another post in a couple of hours.

cheers,

- ami

ichael@michael-desktop:~$ ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/
libflashplayer.so
michael@michael-desktop:~$ ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/
ls: cannot access /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/: No such file or directory

Sam: I followed your instructions. This is what came up in the terminal. Is this what you mean by "...check terminal output.." Video still doesn't work right. I use YouTube as an example, but I am primarily interested in video such as are linked at NYTimes.com orPBS.org.

@ Sam

Oh; sorry: I didn't see your last post, Sam. Must have had my edit window open while yours went up. If you're "on the case" here, so much the better. I'm going to continue to follow the thread, and will probably add my two cents in as it continues, but I'm not really the person to diagnose video problems. Haven't had much luck with that on my own system.

Also, I want to thank you (!) for writing this,

> ... it's possible to watch YouTube videos with Totem. Open the
> sidebar in Totem, choose YouTube from dropdown, type in search
> box e.g. Nautilus Ubuntu or Flashplayer Ubuntu or Compiz Ubuntu"

I was very surprised to find that this worked for me. I didn't think it would, since I no longer have flash installed, and I uninstalled gnash 0.82 via Synaptic. ( But despite it being shown as not installed in Synaptic, gnash still shows up as an installed plugin when I open Firefox and look at its Tools > Add-ons > Plug-ins screen, so maybe the Totem player is still using gnash, anyway, or has it's own built-in youtube codec? Would be odd if Totem *is* relying upon gnash 0.82, because the gnash developers comment on their own page that the version is too out-of-date to work with youtube. ) But for whatever reason it works, and even though I'd prefer to be able to watch video from within Firefox, it's great to have youtube back. Lets me continue watching an online physics course I had started, so thanks!

Finally, before my last post I had written up some 80% finished stuff about that last command that I asked Michael to run (grep), so I'll probably go ahead and post that anyway, in case he or any subsequent reader would like to know what the heck it meant.

cheers, - ami

@ ami

Thank you for the nice little essay. I had read a longer but less informative article in the Times business section a while back. I find this interesting but I must say that I am not all that interested in the workings of my computer--I am an artisan who works with my hands and uses the computer very little (this video situation is holding my interest because I am a do it your selfer and you and Sam have been amazingly patient and helpful, but this is by far the most time I have ever spent doing anything on a computer and I should be restoring an antique window sash right now).

I followed your instructions and this is what Mr. T (terminal) had to say:grep -i '^deb http' /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid restricted main
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security multiverse
michael@michael-desktop:~$

Thank You. --MJK

Michael,
the output above quote:
:~$ ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/
libflashplayer.so
tells us, you did NOT remove this package.

Lets try it from the terminal:
##please type carefully or copy&paste, insert your login password when required, you wont see anything when you type it.

sudo apt-get purge flashplugin-nonfree

#Then we'll clean the cache:

sudo apt-get autoremove && sudo apt-get autoclean

Please check if it is still there:

ls /usr/lib/flashplugin-nonfree/

###
Second, we will add and uncomment repositories in your sources.list.
First backup the file: ##There will be no feedback, it just creates a second backup file.

sudo cp /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.backup

In order to edit your sources.list please post the content of the file here.
You can do this either within the file manager:
Path is:
/etc/apt
double click on sources.list to open.

or in terminal:
cat /etc/apt/sources.list

deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Release i386 (20081029.5)]/ intrepid main restricted
deb-src http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main restricted #Added by software-properties
# See http://help.ubuntu.com/community/UpgradeNotes for how to upgrade to
# newer versions of the distribution.

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid restricted main
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties

## Major bug fix updates produced after the final release of the
## distribution.
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties

## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team. Also, please note that software in universe WILL NOT receive any
## review or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe

## N.B. software from this repository is ENTIRELY UNSUPPORTED by the Ubuntu
## team, and may not be under a free licence. Please satisfy yourself as to
## your rights to use the software. Also, please note that software in
## multiverse WILL NOT receive any review or updates from the Ubuntu
## security team.
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from the 'backports'
## repository.
## N.B. software from this repository may not have been tested as
## extensively as that contained in the main release, although it includes
## newer versions of some applications which may provide useful features.
## Also, please note that software in backports WILL NOT receive any review
## or updates from the Ubuntu security team.
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse

## Uncomment the following two lines to add software from Canonical's
## 'partner' repository. This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is
## offered by Canonical and the respective vendors as a service to Ubuntu
## users.
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner

deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted
deb-src http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security restricted main multiverse universe #Added by software-properties
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security multiverse
deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Release i386 (20081029.5)]/ intrepid main restricted

Edit my sources.list?

Hi Michael -

I understand what you said about not being much focused on the inner workings of your computer as an end in itself. You're in good company, probably 95% of computer users feel the same way, I'd guess. And I certainly don't mean to overload you with technical information you're not especially interested in, of course. But as much as I want any particular user to get his immediate problem solved, I'm also very interested in making sure I try hard to understand what's going on, insofar as I can, and in sharing any resulting knowledge effectively with the rest of the open-source community.

There'll likely be at least a few others who will try to follow this thread in the future, others who have similar video problems, and who come across it via a key word search, or who are just interested in learning by following along without participating directly. Ubuntu does have something like eight million users, after all, and this forum is one of the main places they come to search for solutions and learn about their software.

In a similar vein, it's almost certainly safe to assume that there are undeclared users who've been at least "looking in" on this thread from time to time as we've continued to seek a resolution to your problem. This "Launchpad Answers" forum we're using doesn't have any way to verify that assumption, but if one looks at the Ubuntu Forums themselves, which do report both number of posts and number of page views for each thread, one finds that it's quite usual that the "page views" for a given thread will exceed its number of actual posts by a factor of between ten and thirty times, and it's not at all uncommon to see threads where that factor reaches 100 times or more. I doubt you and Sam and I, along with the others who have posted to the thread previously, are quite so popular as all that ;) but I'd be very surprised to discover that we don't have at least a few die-hard fans silently urging the whole bunch of us on with their collective interest and good will.

So for the sake of my own personal interest and learning, and the interests of both subsequent and undeclared readers, I hope you won't mind if I continue, at intervals, and as I have the time, to document what we try here, what works, and what doesn't, and to express the same in terms that beginning users can have at least a reasonable chance of understanding, perhaps with just a little reading and experimentation to supplement that on the side.

If anything about that begins to seem onerous for you, if it seems burdensome to try to follow along re the more technical aspects, then there's no reason that you should. Nothing at all wrong with just following Sam's instructions, provided he's willing, copying-and-pasting as you go, and trusting him to set things right with your system. No reason to dig in more deeply unless you enjoy doing so, or are just naturally interested.

I can't guess how much longer it might take to solve your problem; my amateur's impression is that your system is maybe a little more out-of-whack than is typical, but anyone who comes to the forums has naturally already tried a bunch of things that didn't work, and it's normal to see the results of those failed repair attempts. I suppose the primary "independent variables" here are how much tolerance you have for the process, and how quickly you and Sam are able to exchange replies. He really is one of the most knowledgable guys on this forum re fixing flash problems, btw.

Of course, there's no pressure, either, if you choose a different route, e.g. if you decide to just go out and buy a Mac, or try to install Vista, or whatever. I hope you're able to stick around, of course, but each of us must decide for himself how to allocate his own resources, including resources of time and attention.

Oh, by the way: In the course of my own travails with flash, I also saw the result you seem to be experiencing. That is, I used Synaptic to remove flash (absolutely, 100% sure), and likewise found that the directories and files that were supposed to have been removed were still present on my system. Not an uncommon situation, I think, although I don't really understand how or why it arises.

cheers, -ami

Thank you Michael.
Since your sources.list includes archive of Canonical partners, you'd be able to install adobe-flashplugin via Synaptic. Just search for it, right click to install. From what I've read you'll have to accept the license and if a warning occurs ignore it and proceed installation.
Please note, as long as flashplugin-nonfree is installed it will use this one and not adobe-flashplugin.

Hope this solves the flash issue.
If not, please consider a removal of all installed flash packages and downloading the .deb file from Adobe website. After download a doubleclick will install it.
Please note, there wont be an automatically update. Each new version requires a removal of the old version first. Read the notes of Adobe.
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

Your sources.list looks good so far, but
I'd strongly recommend to comment (sort of disable) intrepid-backports and proposed packages. Why, because you'll receive packages which may cause conflicts and this would be the harmless case. Read the notes above the url of your sources.list.

##Example of a 'clean' sources.list

## Ubuntu supported packages
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main restricted
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid main restricted
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted

## Ubuntu community supported packages
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse

## Canonical's 'partner' repository.
## This software is not part of Ubuntu, but is
## offered by Canonical
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
deb-src http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner

deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security multiverse

In case you consider to edit sources.list you may use a terminal again.
##Please note that any mystyping may cause that the system wont update anymore.
This will open a text editor with administrative privileges and you'll work on the original file:

gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list

After you save the file, you'll need to update packages list. Make sure Synaptic or any other update application isn't running.

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get upgrade

Michael wrote,

 QUESTION: "Edit my sources.list?"

 ANSWER: So how much do you want to know? ( Part 1 )

I've actually already decided to provide a rather comprehensive answer here. This is not so much because I think you'll be interested yourself, Michael, but more for the benefit of any other beginning users who may read this subsequently, and who'd like to know what all the obscure commands Sam and I have been asking you to run mean. Given your own level of interest in these sorts of things, Michael, I'll mention that you can safely skip the rest of this post, and just pick up again with whatever Sam recommends to you next.

Alright, then: The word "edit", here, just carries its usual meaning, i.e. "to change the contents of something to accomplish some specific purpose." Just like you'd use a word-processing program to "edit" a business proposal, for example, you can use a stripped-down word processing program called, appropriately enough, a "text editor" to edit the file named "sources.list" that's present on your computer. The default text editor program that's supplied with Ubuntu is called "gedit", and you can start it up by going to your Desktop's main menu bar at the top of the screen and clicking Applications > Accessories > Text Editor. You can also start it directly from the terminal's command line, just by typing "gedit", followed by the name of the file that you want to edit.

The particular file that Sam was about to suggest that you edit is named "sources.list" .

 ## CAUTION, TO SUBSEQUENT READERS: If you're going to try any of this on
 ## your own system you should be sure to first make a backup copy of your
 ## system's own "sources.list" file, as Sam had Michael do with the "cp"
 ## command, a few posts previous to this one. Or it you'd prefer, and are
 ## sure you know how to do it correctly, you can make a backup copy of the
 ## file by using the (Nautilus) file browser that's available from your
 ## (Gnome) desktop's "Places" menu-bar selection.

The "sources.list" is just the file you already examined with that "grep" pattern matching command that I gave you, above, and the same file that Sam also had you list out in its entirety by entering "cat sources.list" into your terminal window, and pressing the "enter" key.

( The "cat" command just displays a text file's contents to the screen. It's a rather unfortunate name. Like so many linux/unix commands, it has its roots back in the very early days of the Unix operating system, when only the most seriously hard-core geeks used it, or used computers at all, for that matter. It's short for "conCATenate", an obscure reference to the way the command works - by "concatenating" the file's contents to that particular section of your computer screen's real-estate which corresponds to your terminal window. If that's too confusing an explanation, you can safely forget it; it's just important to remember the name of the command and what you can do with it. You might be familiar with the equivalent command on Windows systems, btw. There the same function is performed by using the "type" command. )

Anyway, the "sources.list" file is located in your computer's /etc/apt/ directory. The file's only purpose is to identify all the "places" your system is currently configured to get software packages from via the Synaptic Package Management Tool or via the "apt" program that Synaptic uses to do its "nuts-and-bolts" or "back end" processing work. These "places" are called "Software repositories"; they're sometimes also called "software archives" or even "software channels", and they correspond to particular server computers located somewhere on the internet. The name of the "apt" program, btw, is an acronym for "Advanced Package Tool".

I'll explain a little more about repositories in a moment, but if you were to first read the top half-page of the very well-written document at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine (just the first section, the one labeled "The Basics") you'll likely end up with a much clearer understanding of what's to follow in this post.

And if you just can't get enough of all this, the document at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components/ is something I'd strongly recommend, as well. It presents some very closely-allied information about the principle subdivisions of the Ubuntu software repositories, called "components", a concept that often generates considerable confusion among new users.

Do refer to that second web document I've listed just above if you want more information. But because you'll see them referred to so often on this forum and in Ubuntu documentation, I'll also mention here that for the Hardy Heron release of Ubuntu, for example, the names of the software repositories enabled by default are "Main" and "Restricted". Most Hardy users also enable the "Universe", and the "Multiverse" repositories to be able to download other software they want to be able to install on their computers.

I understand these component names were supposed to have changed, just a little, in subsequent releases, but that doesn't appear to have been done in the Intrepid release of Ubuntu that you're running on your system, Michael, based on what I see of your "sources.list" file, anyway. Perhaps they're only renamed in the user-interface (i.e. in the Synaptic Package Manager tool) or only in releases subsequent to Intrepid, viz. Jaunty Jackalope, and Karmic Koala.

THIS POST WILL CONTINUE IN PART 2.

PS: @ Michael, I just saw Sam's new post, beginning "Thank you Michael.
 Since your sources.list includes archive of Canonical partners ..."

 I have to be off-line for the next six to eight hours, but if you'd
 like help working with his recommendations I'd be glad to oblige.
 Will check back sooner, if at all possible; unlikely, however.

cheers, -ami

Michael wrote,

QUESTION: "Edit my sources.list?"

ANSWER: So how much do you want to know? ( Part 2 )

( @ Michael: As with Part 1, above, this post is targeted less to you than it's meant for the interested "beginner-enthusiast". Reading this, and Part 1 for that matter, would certainly help you make better sense of Sam's last post, and help you know what you need to do next, too. But please do understand that the jocular, nagging tone I allowed myself in this post, while ostensibly directed to you, was not in fact meant for you at all. I composed it after you'd already let us know you're not so much the aspiring linux geek as you are just someone who wants to use his computer and have it work right. I honestly did NOT have you in mind at all as the intended target of the jocular comments that follow. )

Okay, let's call your attention back to the actual contents of your "sources.list" file now. But rather than looking at the whole, messy thing, comments and all, let's focus in on just the twelve lines of output generated by the

grep '^deb http' /etc/apt/sources.list

command when it's run on your Intrepid system, viz.

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid restricted main
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates main restricted
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-updates multiverse
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
deb http://archive.canonical.com/ubuntu intrepid partner
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security main restricted
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security universe
deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
deb http://security.ubuntu.com/ubuntu intrepid-security multiverse

That output may look a little intimidating, but it's really not so hard to make sense of.

( By the way, some extremely-observant subsequent reader may notice that I left the "-i" out of the grep command, above. It's not necessary, and I didn't need it in the post where I initially presented it, either. In the case under discussion in this thread, grep produces exactly the same results regardless of whether that "-i" parameter is present or absent. )

Okay, so about those dozen lines, above:

The "deb" at the beginning of each line means that the software packages on-offer were put together for computers based on the "Debian" project's operating system. And if you looked at the two web pages I recommended in Part 1, above, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine , and http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components/ then you'll know what the rest of each line means, too....

What's that? ... No; it's impossible! You didn't look at those two references? I'm shocked, shocked!
Well, seriously; you should read them, now, if you really haven't yet. I realize this is quite a lot of new information to take in, and that you might not understand everything or even most of what you see on those two web pages. But you really do need to at least try to read them with some care in order to understand this.

Okay; we already discussed the "deb" at the beginning of these lines.

Well, then, now that you've read the two web pages about this that I've been promoting so fervently, I'll go ahead and recap those by telling you that:

The middle part of each of the lines above, the "http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/", for example, identifies the server computer on the internet where the repository can be found. It also indicates that the server can be accessed via the hypertext transfer protocol (that what "http" stands for), the same data-communications protocol that web browsers use to access web pages.

The next part of the line says what version of a linux distribution the software packages are intended for. ( Ubuntu is a linux "distribution", you'll recall, a big bundle of programs, including an operating system "kernel", supporting infrastructure software, and maybe even some "application programs" like Firefox or OpenOffice. ) So the lines above show that the software on offer is for Ubuntu's "Intrepid" version.

Finally, "extra" words, if any, at the end of any given line, indicate subdivisions of a repository, which are called "components", as I mentioned previously, and as is well-documented on the web page at http://www.ubuntu.com/community/ubuntustory/components/ that I've mentioned so frequently here, along with the one at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Repositories/CommandLine .

Okay, hope that helps. Now I really do have to fly.

cheers, - ami

@ami

I gave you the wrong impression. I think all this information is fantastic. I only wish I understood it. I have learned quite a bit about how the system works. Believe it or not, I never knew how to cut and paste until you took the time to explain it and I have now removed and installed software via synaptic and the terminal (Miss Sin and Mr. T --I name all my tools) which were complete mysteries to me a month ago. I guess I am becoming more interested as I learn more. I am absolutely amazed that some Strangers in Cyberspace are taking the time to help somebody who is so hopelessly devoid of technical knowledge. Thank you.

@ anyone

At this point I have completely removed both flashes and have subsequently installed each one separately and reloaded using synaptic. After making sure that no flashplayer was installed, I went to the Adobe web site where it was strongly recommended that I down load a later version from a software channel. Haven't I already done that via Synaptic?

@ Sam I would like to disable potentially problematic packages but I can't follow any of this: .I'd strongly recommend to comment (sort of disable) intrepid-backports and proposed packages. Why, because you'll receive packages which may cause conflicts and this would be the harmless case. Read the notes above the url of your sources.list. ...In case you consider to edit sources.list you may use a terminal again.
##Please note that any mystyping may cause that the system wont update anymore.
This will open a text editor with administrative privileges and you'll work on the original file:

gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list

After you save the file, you'll need to update packages list. Make sure Synaptic or any other update application isn't running.

sudo apt-get update

sudo apt-get upgrade Ami has given a thorough explanation, but it is still beyond me

Michael, thanks again for asking about difficulties.
One option would be to empty your sources.list (remove the content) and replace it with the example content which I've posted above.
To verify that the example file will not harm your installation, you may cross check with the official documentation page about repositories or also with your current sources.list. You'll see that some lines in the example are missing compared to your current sources.list, these are intrepid-proposed and intrepid-backports.

Another option is to disable (means this # symbol) those lines. This way the package management will not read those lines anymore.

If you like to proceed, you may open a terminal which you've used already by typing commands in there.
In order to edit your sources.list you have to open it with so called administrative privileges, this is what 'sudo' stands for (sort of super_user_do). After you type a command with 'sudo' in front, your password (the one you login with) will be required. When you type your password you'll actually not see any letters, stars or alike, but it will still recognize what you type. After you've typed your password press enter as you do after any other command also.

By typing following command it will open your current sources.list in a text editor and enable you to edit.

gksudo gedit /etc/apt/sources.list

Now, you can make a comment in front of those lines as the example here:

#deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse

#deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
#deb-src http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe

And you may remove these lines: (you have two of them in the file):

deb cdrom:[Ubuntu 8.10 _Intrepid Ibex_ - Release i386 (20081029.5)]/ intrepid main restricted

When finished, save the file.

In case you like to change the whole content, mark it from the editor menu with 'choose all' and press backspace, now the file should be empty.
Copy&paste example content posted earlier, save the file.

##btw. in case you like to use keyboard shortcuts. (In case you don't understand just skip this hint.)
mark all = ctrl+a
copy = ctrl+c
cut = ctrl+x
paste = ctrl+v

After the file is saved you have to tell the package management to update the repository.
This is done with the commands:

sudo apt-get update

##and then

sudo apt-get upgrade

###
Concerning your question about latest version of flash, yes and no.
Ubuntu has it's own repository management, offering over 25000 packages, this way one doesn't need to download anything unreviewed or suspicious from the internet.
Since all packages are signed and developers all over the world reviewing and pack them up, it may take a while before the latest version is confirmed and released. This is a contribution to security.

The philosophy behind is, that at the end of the day, anyone is personally responsible for his actions and should know what he is doing and deal with the consequences. Hence, in a position where the knowlegde of a new system is very basically, the user is able to rely on a rich package management without the worry of destabilization.

@ Sam

Sorry but don't know how to make a comment,remove a line, nor save a file and I still don't know where to down load the flashplayer from. Neither version in synaptics works properly. I currently have both of them "completely removed." Thanks for your patience. This is why I said that in begining that I felt like Ubuntu was for techies or at least for those more sophisticated than me. I typed "software channel" in the help search box but there was nothing. I have read the help sections several times and I am studying Ami's very explicit guidance but I am still at sea.

Also: The Totem path to YouTube is disfunctional too, but I am glad that you pointed me to it because I had no idea that I could access all those BBC podcasts. Thanks a lot.

Ok Michael,
if a path is broken, we could fix that, but not at this moment of state. Whenever you're more familiar with the interface of your installation, don't hesitate to post a new question.
In the meantime you're able to start any application in the terminal, example for Totem, just type this:
totem

Concerning the basics of removal, comment and save, lets take a look at gedit, which is the text editor I've mentioned above. This it how it looks:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/gedit?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=scrn-gedit.png

In the main menu you'll find - Edit -, when you click on it a submenu opens, where the options are, while you work on the content. Example copy, pase, cut.
Also you'll find in the main menu - File -, when you click on this, the submenu will show you the option - Save.
It may also be the case that your text editor shows symbols like this, depending on the configuration of viewing windows, they can have symbols, only text or both.
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/gedit?action=AttachFile&do=get&target=geditdocbook.png

Working on the content as mentioned above concerning sources.list.
You want to remove one line:
Hightlight or mark the line, start in front of the first letter of the line, means the cursor is in front of the first letter (alike when you post here a comment this small blinking vertical symbol). Permanent left click with the mousebotton and pull untill the end of the line. Now press on your keyboard - Backspace -, the line is empty.

You want to comment a line:
example_this_line_here

Move the cursor again in front of the first letter of the line and insert this key: #
Result:
#example_this_line_here

For some it's easier to use the - arrow keys - on the keyboard.
To highlight or mark one line you'll need to permanent press - Shift - and move the cursor with the right arrow key to end of the line.

###
Downloading flashplayer from Adobe website as mentioned above from here:
http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/

Select version to download...
.deb for Ubuntu

Save file to your desktop and double click on it, it will install now, done.

Hi Michael -

I wanted to let you know I haven't abandoned your problem, here. Sorry if it seemed so; I had thought I'd be able to check back in much sooner.

But I've found some time to work on a substantial reply/post that I think will help you understand Sam's recommendations more fully, and begin to implement them. I'll be able to post at least a large part of that within two hours at the most.

You might want to wait until you see that before going ahead with trying to install a package obtained through your browser from Adobe's web site. I recall that you tried that before, and found that the Flash package obtained for Ubuntu in that way is not as current as the adobe-flashplugin version available through Synaptic from the "partner" (Canonical) repository. I found the same results, by the way.

In your last post you said that neither flashplugin-nonfree nor adobe-flashplugin were showing as being installed in Synaptic. I'd suggest that, if this is still the case, you might want to leave things that way temporarily, until you and I can walk through Sam's recommendations with the attention to detail that they require.

Part of my reason for suggesting that is because you wrote,

> The Totem path to YouTube is disfunctional too ...

If Totem can't play videos, either, that seems like it might be a pretty significant clue.

I want to double-check it, by un-installing gnash from my system, but I thought I was able to view youtube videos via Totem when I didn't have gnash or any flash video player software installed at all. If you can't, then that might imply that the problem isn't flash at all, but something that's a little lower, a little more basic in the "stack" of software that allows videos to play. Again, though, I do need to see whether Totem can still play youtube video on my system after I uninstall gnash, before I know whether that might be the case on yours. Could be a "red herring", we'll see.

But in the mean time, would you also make doubly sure you can't use the Totem movie player ( Applications > Sound & Video > Movie Player ) to watch any youtube video?

Would you, for example, make sure the "Sidebar" at the right side of the Totem window is visible. ( There's a button next to the speaker icon at the bottom of the Totem window that opens and closes the sidebar. ) Then at the top of that sidebar panel, just to the left of a clickable "X", there's a dropdown listbox "button" that probably says "Playlist" on it, although it could also say "Properties" or "YouTube".

If it *does* already say "YouTube" then that's what we want, you can leave it alone. But if it says "Playlist", or "Properties", then we need to change it to say "YouTube". Just click on it, and you'll see a "menu" of three choices appear. Click on the "YouTube" choice.

Next, now that the "button" says "YouTube" on it, you should see a white-background that's labeled "Search", just below. Type (or, better, copy-and-paste) the following characters,

mgKoKwo2QBc

into that "Search" box, and click the binoculars icon next to it, or just press the "enter" key on your keyboard.

You should at least see a "miniature" television screen in the panel, one that says something about a European Union Summit. If you do, double-click on it. If it plays, great. If it doesn't play, don't do anything right away. Go make a sandwich, or at least give it a couple of minutes. Let us know if it eventually plays, please.

I selected that sequence, "mgKoKwo2QBc", btw, because it identifies a particular YouTube video that's only 11 seconds long. That's of benefit because if your internet connection is slow you won't have to sit there staring at Totem while it's apparently not responding but is, in fact, just in the process of downloading a long video into a temporary folder.

Also, do you have any idea how fast or slow your internet connection is? If not, would you mind saying how you connect ( e.g. cable modem, DSL, phone modem, WiFi, etc. ). The reason I ask is that I worked with a guy who was having fits trying to get video to play at home, and after a week of trying he happened to take his computer, a laptop, to school and used their WiFi, which worked just fine. If you don't know how your computer is connected to the internet, then do you know the name of your Internet Service Provider?

Oh, also, will you open Firefox > Tools > Add-Ons and let us know whether you see anything related to video playback there, eg. gnash, or flash, or anything that says Adobe or Macromedia?

More to follow, very shortly.

cheers, -ami

@ Michael

I should add that once you enter,

mgKoKwo2QBc

in Totem's "Search" box for YouTube, and click the binoculars or press the "Enter" key on your keyboard, it could also look like nothing is happening, like Totem is locked up, or not responding. The Totem screen could turn dim, too, could turn slowly gray.

If any of those things happen, i.e. if you don't immediately see the "miniature television screen" for a European Union video in the Sidebar's vertical white panel, don't panic. Give it a while; if your internet connection is slow, or has sporadic cut-outs, it could take a while to show up, even as long as a several minutes.

And if it does show up, and double-clicking on it appears to do nothing, you should also wait. Don't click on anything else, trying to get it to "work"; it could be working hard, downloading that video clip over a slow or intermittent internet connection. So I was serious about going and making yourself a sandwich.

Also, that particular video clip is a very low resolution one. If it does play in Totem, but just looks bad, it's not the fault of your PC or software. It wouldn't look better on a different PC; it's just a low-res video file that was uploaded by the BBC, or whoever.

Mostly-Off-Topic: You mentioned you listen to BBC podcasts; you might enjoy the "film noir" detective story series produced by a group called the Decoder Ring Theater. You can download mp3 files for the series, which is named "Black Jack Justice", after it's lead character, PodioBooks. Follow this link, http://www.podiobooks.com/title/black-jack-justice---season-one to see the mp3 files for all of Season One, or just click on this link http://www.podiobooks.com/sample/48630/PB-BlackJackJusticeS1-01.mp3 to save the premier episode to your PC. I have no affiliation with either PodioBooks or the people who produce the series, btw. I just think the series is great fun. Also, the mp3 for that first episode is just about ten megabytes, and I'd be interested to know roughly how long it takes to download to your PC. That would provide a crude indicator as to your internet connection's download speed.

cheers, - ami

Hi Michael -

( Michael wrote, to ami: )

> I gave you the wrong impression. I think all this information
> is fantastic. I only wish I understood it. I have learned quite
> a bit about how the system works...

Sorry to have misunderstood, but I certainly have sympathy for what you're going through: for how long can it can take to learn enough to fix system problems.

( Linux has no corner on that market, btw. You evidently had the good luck not to have seen any really difficult problems on MS Windows systems, but I assure you they can be every bit as bad as this, and then some. I've actually spent far longer dealing with my friends' Windows problems than I have helping friends who have switched to Ubuntu. )

> ... and I have now removed and installed software via synaptic
> and the terminal (Miss Sin and Mr. T --I name all my tools) which
> were complete mysteries to me a month ago. I guess I am becoming
> more interested as I learn more. I am absolutely amazed that some
> Strangers in Cyberspace are taking the time to help somebody who
> is so hopelessly devoid of technical knowledge. Thank you.

Glad to try to help you. I'm learning a lot in the process too, and recalling a lot I'd forgotten, both welcome experiences. Besides, anyone who's developed any acumen with linux has himself been the recipient of a great deal of volunteer assistance over time, as well. But ... "Miss Sin" and "Mr. T"? That's not just funny, that's geeky funny! ( In a good, "yeah, he's a linux geek" kind of way. )

You know, the experience of trying to help you with this has opened my eyes to something: Someone really needs to write a "shell script" that a user who's having problems with video playback can run to gather the information that experts like Sam need to diagnose the problem. ( A "shell script" is just a small program that can be run from a terminal window. ) There's really no reason that every new user who has video problems should have to learn everything you've had to, just so he can report it back to others on the forums for assistance. Maybe I'll see if anyone else on the forums can help get that rolling. It could save a lot of new users considerable time and grief, I should think.

( Michael wrote to Sam: )

> ... The Totem path to YouTube is disfunctional too, but I
> am glad that you pointed me to it because I had no idea
> that I could access all those BBC podcasts. Thanks a lot.

You can't play videos using Totem? That seems to me to be CLUE, a really significant one.

I say so because I've now verified that Totem doesn't depend upon the presence of Flash or gnash to play videos, even YouTube videos. It evidently uses the "gstreamer" software libraries, or perhaps it's own "codecs" to compress-and-decompress and render YouTube videos.

It seems to me that we should probably try to get your system's ability to play YouTube video using Totem back in order before we try anything else re Flash. It'd be a good troubleshooting help, a good intermediate step to rule out the presence of any as-yet-undiscovered problems that might also be interfering with Flash playback in Firefox. It'd be helpful, in other words, to know that your system could play videos using Totem's simpler playback infrastructure before we keep on trying to diagnose Flash's more complex requirements, such as it's integration with Firefox, among other complicating factors.

By the way, in my previous post I wrote that you could use the link I provided to "...download mp3 files for the series, which is named "Black Jack Justice", after it's lead character, PodioBooks." It'd be silly to name a film noir private investigator "PodioBooks", wouldn't it? I imagine you guessed, correctly, that the lead character is named "Jack Justice", and that PodioBooks is the name of the site that hosts the series.

Let us know whether the steps I provided earlier allow YouTube video to play in Totem, and about your Firefox > Tools > Add-ons > Plug-ins , too.

cheers, - ami

QUESTION: "Edit my sources.list?"
ANSWER: So how much do you want to know? ( Part 3 )

I see that Sam suggests that you try to learn a little about how to use a text editor program before you proceed to editing your "sources.list" file. I'd strongly support that idea. Being able to use such a program is a pretty necessary skill. And even if you've never used a word processing program before, it won't take more than a few minutes to learn. Useful, too, for things like composing e-mails, writing shopping lists, and many other things as well.

If you're not familiar with it, I'd suggest you try out Ubuntu's default text editor program, "gedit". It's works pretty similarly to Microsoft Word and the Open Office word processor, but has a lot fewer features, and is thus much simpler to understand and use. Go to your desktop's main menu bar and click on Applications > Accessories > Text Editor.

Type in anything you like. Try copy-and-paste, e.g. from this paragraph that you're now reading, or from the output of some terminal command you've gained some experience with. Try cut-and-paste, which works very similarly. Note that there are "cut, copy, and paste" buttons at the top of the text editor's screen. See how the "Find" button works. If you like, try typing "gedit tutorial" into google, and seeing if there are any good instructions out there, if you feel like it. ( Might be better to wait until you have video playback again, though. There's probably a good 5-minute video tutorial on gedit out there somewhere, on youtube, for example, and it'd be helpful to have that visual feedback instead of just trying to read a written set of tutorial instructions. )

When you've got a little bit of the hang of how to enter and manipulate text, and are done noodling around, try saving what you've written. Do this: Click the "Save" button/icon at the top of the scren. A window labeled "Save As" will pop up. Look at the "Places" panel at the left side of that window. Find the entry in that list of "places" where you can save your file that's labeled "Desktop". Click that. Then look at the top of the gedit window, where it says "Name". In the long blank area to the right of "Name" type in something to call the file: testfile, maybe, or perhaps, masterpiece, if you really got creative with what you wrote. Then take your mouse and click on the button at the bottom right corner of the window that says "Save".

That will close the popup window, and will also put an icon for the file you just saved on your desktop, although you may have to move some windows out of the way to be able to see it there. Later, if you want to edit the same file again, you can just double-click on the file's icon on your desktop to do so. Go ahead and exit the gedit text editor now, by clicking on the word "File" that's at the far left of gedit's top menu bar, at the extreme upper left corner of the text editor's window, in other words. Doing so will present a drop-down menu, and at the very bottom of that menu you'll see the word "Quit". Click on that.

It'll help you pull together and consolidate what you've learned if you were to now open a terminal window, and play around a little with the commands you've already used.

For example, you can use the same "cat" command that you used earlier ( when you entered "cat /etc/apt/sources.list" ) to display the contents of the file you just created. Just type the command,

cat testfile

but replace "testfile" with the actual name you gave the file when you saved it, i.e. with "masterpiece", or whatever name you used. If you don't see anything, or get a "No such file or directory error", it just means that when you opened your terminal window it wasn't set to use your Desktop as its default directory. See what *is* in use as your current directory in the terminal by just typing,

pwd

and pressing the "enter" key. ( The "pwd" command just stands for "Print Working Directory". ) If you didn't see anything when you entered "cat testfile", or whatever you called your file, you need to navigate to the Desktop directory, where the file you created is stored. Just type

cd ~

at the command prompt in your terminal window, and press enter. Then type in,

cd Desktop

and again press enter.

The "cd" command just means "Change Directory", and the symbol "~", which occurs on my own keyboard at the extreme upper left corner, to the left of the number keys, is just a shorthand notation for what's called your "home" directory. The official name for my own home directory on my computer is "/home/ami", if that helps you make sense of this.

Try entering "pwd" again; what you see as a result is called "the full path name of your Desktop directory". So if "cat testfile" (or whatever you named your file) didn't work before, try it again now that you know you're in the right place for your terminal to find it.

Once the contents of your file have displayed in your terminal, type

clear

and hit the "enter" key. The "clear" command just clears the terminal window's screen.

You used the "ls" command, in response to previous requests Sam made. You typed, for example, "ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/". This time, just type in,

ls

and hit the "enter" key. The "ls" command, you'll recall, is just a unix-geek's vowel-impaired name for a request to "LiSt" the names of the files that are present in a directory. Among the other file names you see listed when you enter the command, you'll also notice that the file you created with the gedit text editor is listed. ( You may also see a file named "testfile~", or whatever. Just ignore that for now; it's just a hidden backup file that the gedit text editor created for your file as you were writing it. )

If you're not bored by now, you might like to look at the contents of your Desktop directory using the Nautilus file browser that you access from your desktop's menu bar, via Places > Desktop. Compare what you see there, in Nautilus, to what you saw when you typed the "ls" command into your terminal window.

Nautilus presents more information, doesn't it? It displays, for example, the access permissions associated with each file. You can see more information about the files in a directory via the terminal window's "ls" command by adding some "flags" or, more correctly, "command line parameters" or (same), just "parameters" after the "ls" command.

In your terminal window, type

ls -l

and press "enter". You see more information, even if you don't understand what each column means, yes?

Now make sure your terminal window is the "active" window on your desktop, before you begin this next part. ( You can do so by using your mouse to click on the window's "title bar", or anywhere within the window, for that matter. )

Now find the cursor movement keys, the "up" arrow, and the "down" arrow, on your keyboard. Press the "up" arrow. Press it a few more times, and see what happens in the terminal window each time you do. Press the "down" arrow key a few times. Do you see what the keys do? They scroll backward and forward through the "history" record of commands you've entered previously. Pressing the "enter" key when any one of your previous commands is shown causes that command to be run, just as if you had typed it in by hand. Even more convenient, when you've displayed a command in this way, you can use the left and right arrow keys to scroll sideways over what's displayed, modify it a bit by typing new characters and deleting others, and then run the newly-modified command by pressing the "enter" key. Because we often need to re-run commands in the terminal, or run them slightly differently ( e.g. followed by different command-line parameters, or different file or directory names ), this is a very convenient feature to know about.

Okay, now just for fun, here's one last terminal command. Type,

fortune

and press "enter".

Do that a few more times. See, linux-geeks have a sense of fun, a sense of humor, too. It's just kind of "different". ;) The command name, "fortune", refers to the message inside a fortune cookie, of course. Don't take them personally, by the way. I think whoever wrote them purposely made them kind of anti-climactic and contrary. I *told* you linux-geeks' have a "different" sense of humor. :)

Now that you have a few more skills, I'll get on to helping you understand Sam's instructions for fixing your "sources.list" file in my next post. Or you can try it yourself, too, based on your new skills.

Sam had you make a backup copy before, so you're very unlikely to hurt anything permanently, but you might prefer to just experiment on a ... let's call it an "experimental" or "scratchpad" copy of your "sources.list" file, at first, until one of us can give you a little more help in following his earlier instructions. I'd suggest that, actually.

So let's make *another* copy of your system's "sources.list" file, one you can just noodle around with, and try out your new-found skills with the text editing program gedit.

In a terminal widow, use the "cp" command to do so. Use your mouse to copy-and-paste the following,

cp /etc/apt/sources.list ~/Desktop/CopyToPlayWithOf_sources.list

into your terminal window, and press the "enter" key.

The command will just return you to your terminal's command prompt, so it'll look like it didn't work, or didn't do anything. But it did! If you move your windows around to look more closely at your desktop, you'll see an icon for the copy there, probably somewhere near the upper left corner of your screen. You'll see a file named "CopyToPlayWithOf_sources.list", in other words.

Okay, you might want to take a break at this point, since you'll probably have been at this for a while now...

cheers, -ami

QUESTION: "Edit my sources.list?"
ANSWER: So how much do you want to know? ( Part 4 )

( ami wrote to Michael: )

> Okay, you might want to take a break at this point,
> since you'll probably have been at this for a while now.

Let's continue now, where we left off.

If you followed the steps I provided in my previous post, there should now be a file named "CopyToPlayWithOf_sources.list" in your Desktop directory, and a corresponding icon for that file visible somewhere on your Gnome desktop.

Double-click the file's icon on your desktop, to cause the gedit text editor program to open it, and see whether you can do any of the kinds of things Sam suggested in his previous posts.

You can edit that "CopyToPlayWithOf_sources.list" file all you like, by the way; the real "sources.list" file remains happily snug in the /etc/apt/ directory, and will not be affected by any changes you make to this copy of its contents.

So then: if you were to use gedit to put a "#" symbol at the beginning of the line that reads,

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe

thus transforming it into a line that look like the following one,

# deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe

then you'd be turning that line into a "comment", insofar as your computer is concerned. From the computer's point of view, it would be ignored every bit as fully as a line that looked like this one,

# my name is michael and I typed this line here using the gedit text editing program

( You would probably *not* want to put a "#" symbol in front of the same line in your real "sources.list" file, btw, since the line in question enables access to a component of the Ubuntu software package repository that most users like to have accessible, viz. the so-called "universe" component which contains "Community-maintained Open Source software". )

Do you see? The effect of putting a "#" (pound) symbol in front tells any program that reads the "sources.list" file in order to figure out where to download software packages from that what follows is a programmer's comment line. The computer recognizes that lines which begin with the "#" symbol aren't meant for *it* to do anything with at all, and ignores them.

Likewise, *removing* a "#" symbol from the front of one of those "deb http ..." lines causes the computer to interpret the resulting line as an instruction that's directed to *it* rather than something that's intended only for human eyes to see and understand.

Comment lines, set off with a special symbol like the "#" sign, are used very extensively by programmers in nearly all programs they write. That's because pages and pages full of lines written in some more or less cryptic programming language, with nothing to explain how the program works, can be pretty hard to follow, even for the most highly-skilled programmers.

This process of adding a leading "#" symbol is what programmers refer to as "commenting out" a line. I imagine the usage comes from the normal English phrase, "lining out" or "crossing out". It's done to inactivate a particular line, usually temporarily. It's a very useful expedient to have available when you're testing or (same) debugging a program that you're currently in the process of developing. It allows you to temporarily isolate segments of the program, in order to see what's working properly and what isn't.

This programmer's practice of putting a "#" sign at the beginning of a line of programming code to effectively turn it into a "comment", and thus cause it not to be acted upon by the computer, has been adopted for use outside of actual programs, too. It's employed not just in programs, in other words, but also in the configuration and data files that programs read as they go about their business. The "sources.list" file is an example of one such configuration file, or I suppose you could more-correctly call it a data file, or better still, a "control file".

The "sources.list" file isn't a program, but programs *consult* it. Programs like "apt" - the "Advanced Package Tool", you'll recall - and like your new friend "Miss Sin", the Synaptic Package Manager, do so. As you know, they do so to find out where to get software packages from, and this "commenting out" (or its opposite, "uncommenting", no one ever says "commenting in" for some reason) convention is employed usefully within the "sources.list" file, also. The "sources.list" file "controls" some of the behavior of apt and Synaptic, thus its classification as a "control file".

It may help you understand this a little better if I mention that this is exactly what the "Software Sources" window does when you check or uncheck one of its boxes. Open up that window, and take a look at it. You can access it a couple of ways; here's one:

System > Administration > Synaptic Package Manager > Settings > Repositories

Don't do it, but suppose you were to uncheck the box in the "Software Sources" window that says "Community-maintained Open Source software (universe)". You'd be saying you no longer wanted Synaptic and apt (the Advanced Package Tool) to access the repository component that makes those software packages available for download, right?

So can you guess how the system would "implement" that decision of yours? If you guessed that a corresponding line in your "sources.list" file would be automatically changed to reflect your decision, you'd be spot on. More specifically, the direct result of unchecking that box would be that the

deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe

line in your "sources.list" file would automatically become

# deb http://us.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/ intrepid universe

It would be "commented out", in other words; a "#" symbol would be automatically inserted at the beginning of the line. That would, of course, transform it into a "comment line", and thus cause it to be ignored by the system when Synaptic or apt come looking for their list of places to get software packages from.

So if you can see and change the list of places Synaptic gets packages from by using a nice, user-friendly GUI ("graphic user interface") tool like the "Software Sources" window, why have Sam and I been asking you to mess around with a non-GUI, character-based tool like the terminal to examine that list? And why have we been moving you, over the last several posts, toward learning what you need to in order to modify that list with a text editor like the gedit program?

It's not that we're being sadistic ... well, I can't speak to Sam's motives, now that I think about it ;) ... but because that list can't be fully controlled just by using the "Software Sources" screen. For one thing, not every repository or repository component identified in the "sources.list" file has a corresponding checkbox in the "Software Sources" screen. The user-friendly, GUI-based screen is certainly much easier to use, but it has other limitations, as well. That's nearly always the case, for any operating system you could name: Most user-configurable setting you can think of probably have a user-friendly GUI window that allows them to be changed. But if you need to *really* control what's going to go on with your computer, you almost always need to use a "command line interface", almost always need to type something into a terminal window, that is. It's not as easy a process, necessarily, but it gives you all the power there is, re controlling your computer.

( Sam wrote to Michael: )

> After the file is saved you have to tell the package
> management to update the repository. This is done with
> the commands:
>
> sudo apt-get update
>
> ##and then
>
> sudo apt-get upgrade

All Sam means here is that once you've changed the contents of the "sources.list" file to enable some new repository component, or disable others, you should issue those two commands, one at a time, pressing "enter" after each. Doing so kind of makes the "sources.list" file stand up and wave its arms, shouting out to the rest of the computer system that the place it gets downloads from has changed. The rest of the computer responds to this important news, in the case where your edits to the file *enabled* a repository component that was previously "commented out", for example, by connecting to the newly-available repository, and downloading the names of the packages that are available there. It does so for a couple of different reasons; one of them is to ensure that the next time you open Synaptic you'll see those new packages and will thus have the opportunity to install the ones, if any, that interest you.

It's actually a little more complicated than that, just a little, but that's enough information for you to understand what Sam's instructions meant, and why they're important. If you want more information you can look at the manual pages for the "apt-get" command, and for the "sudo" command, too, if you're interested.

Hang in there, we'll get this done yet.

cheers, -ami

@all: I am going to need some time to digest all this. I now have edited the source list by replacing mine with Sam's cleaned up version and will try to figure out what to do next based on the above messages.

@ ami: You tube video you suggested via Totem was too short to really highlight the problem, but it still had required 2 buffers to play through. I have noticed that some videos from other locations play right away, some take some time to down load but then play uninterrupted. TheDailyShow's and AmericanExperience's don't work at all, but now that I have eliminated flashplayers, if I right click, there is an "about swydec" where there used to be an "about Adobe" so I checked and I do have that installed though it obviously doesn't play those videos.

@ all: There is need to hurry with these responses as I am still trying to work out the meaning of 7 or 8 previous messages, and this is a very busy time of year for me as far as my profession as a lot of my work is seasonal. Feel free to e-mail me for home improvement/home repair/restoration advice? Thank you very much.--MJK

I installed Adobe Flashplayer from the website but there must be something else I have to do make it work. Sam said double click it. Double click what? Any way...it doesn't work.

@anyone:

If you'd like a quick way to see what package repositories and repository components your system is set up to download from via Synaptic or apt, you can copy-and-paste the following into a terminal window,

grep '^deb http' /etc/apt/sources.list | grep -o intrepid.*$

and press the "enter" key. NOTE (!) that you'll need to replace the word "intrepid", in the above with "gutsy", "hardy", "jaunty", "karmic", or whatever the first word of the code name for the Ubuntu release you're using happens to be. On an intrepid system, the output from the above line will look somthing like this:

intrepid main restricted
intrepid restricted main
intrepid-updates main restricted
intrepid universe
intrepid-updates universe
intrepid multiverse
intrepid-updates multiverse
intrepid-backports main restricted universe multiverse
intrepid partner
intrepid-security main restricted
intrepid-security universe
intrepid-proposed restricted main multiverse universe
intrepid-security multiverse
intrepid main restricted

cheers, - ami

@ Michael:

I stumbled across your earlier question, from around two months ago, at https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/61550 :

> Is it possible to watch video such as "The Daily Show" with 7.10 Feisty Fawn?
> For example: mozilla-plugin-vlc conflicts with existing software according to the
> add/remove window. Resolve conflict with synaptic package manager. How? I
> would like to watch Stewart and Colbert on line. Is that possible with Feisty Fox.
> I had no better results with 8.04. Other video plays 2-3 seconds at a time and
> can only be watched as a whole by replaying. I know very little about computers
> so perhaps I have no choice but Windows.

If I understand your situation correctly, you first had Hardy (8.04) on your computer, then when video played in a poor, "stuttering" way, you tried installing Gutsy (7.10), and obtained the same result? And then you installed Intrepid ( 8.10 ), experienced the same "stuttering" playback, started trying various things to fix that, and broke your ability to see even "stuttering" playback from within Firefox? And you've never been able to watch "The Daily Show", or "The Colbert Report" directly from their web sites? ( Was that because of "stuttering", too, or was some other playback problem in evidence when you tried? )

Is this summary correct?

If so, and especially given that the 11-second video clip also "stuttered" - presume that's what you meant by "it still had required 2 buffers to play through" - it seems pretty clear that you have some kind of ongoing internet connection problem re download speed.

Your experience reminds me of this one, reported in a thread entitled "Flash plugin for online videos is driving me INSANE!" :

( user VotaVader wrote, at http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1102805 : )

> I... DON'T... BELIEVE IT...
> I actually did a fresh install of Ubuntu the other day, and guess what... the
> problem persisted. So I got really suspicious. The thing is, the problem was
> the stupidest thing ever: THE CULPRIT WAS THE NETWORK CONNECTION!
>
> I tried to watch a video while connected to the network at my university,
> and it worked like a charm... back at my house, same problem as before.
> I still find it strange that it failed from one day to the next, and that the
> flash plugin got corrupt (message that I didn't have it installed). Also the
> recurring hashsum mismatch is strange... (snip) ...
>
> I have a hunch that my network card and/or it's driver are failing or not
> configured properly...

Your internet connection quality and download speed needs to be investigated and resolved if there is in fact a problem, as I strongly suspect given that you've gone through three operating system releases without a satisfactory result. Another possibility, which I consider much less likely, is that you're seeing the "stuttering" because of a video card driver problem. In either case, additional changes of the sort you've been trying for the past couple of months will do nothing to resolve such a problem; they'll only complicate things further still.

@ Sam

If Michael was first running hardy, then "downgraded" to gutsy, then went from gutsy straight to his current intrepid install without again installing hardy as an intermediate step, that wouldn't be a supported upgrade path, would it? Perhaps he did perform an intermediate hardy installation, (Michael?), but if not I'd say it would be time to completely wipe his hard drive (after writing any files he's saved and wants to keep to an external device) and to start with a completely fresh install from some verified local media, rather than any kind of "upgrade". As I recall, he has no Windows partition to worry about, which would simplify the process of generating a completely "clean" install.

After doing so, I'd say that he needs to investigate his internet connection quality and speed, and correct any problems found there *BEFORE* he installs any new codecs or plug-ins, beyond those that are installed by default. Otherwise the situation just becomes too complicated, with too many variables that could be at fault, IMO.

Thoughts?

- ami

Launchpad seems to have garbled or truncated the inline text I quoted above. Here it is again, then.

I... DON'T... BELIEVE IT...
I actually did a fresh install of Ubuntu the other day, and guess what... the problem persisted. So I got really suspicious. The thing is, the problem was the stupidest thing ever: THE CULPRIT WAS THE NETWORK CONNECTION!

I tried to watch a video while connected to the network at my university, and it worked like a charm... back at my house, same problem as before. I still find it strange that it failed from one day to the next, and that the flash plugin got corrupt (message that I didn't have it installed). Also the recurring hashsum mismatch is strange. I still can't properly install flashplugin-nonfree successfully, and have to use adobe-flashplugin instead (although they're supposedly the same, it's still weird). I have a hunch that my network card and/or it's driver are failing or not configured properly...

cheers, - ami

Thanks Michael.
Since your time is precious and ami offers lots of details, I'll keep it short as usual.

Quote:
>there is an "about swydec"

You meant 'swfdec'.
This is another flashplayer which wasn't removed as suggested before.
Hence adobe-flashplayer will not work, firefox will use swfdec.

First you need to remove 'swfdec'.
Please open Synaptic (the package manager) again and search for 'swfdec'.
Right click on the line which appears on the right site and which should show the swfdec package.
Choose from the context menu 'remove completely'.
In the main menu of Synaptic click on 'Apply'.

##You may repeat the same with 'gnash' if it is still installed.

Since you installed adobe-flashplayer it should work now if 'swfdec' is removed.
You may check again with this three commands in a terminal, after each please press - Enter -:

ls .mozilla/plugins

ls /usr/lib/adobe-flashplugin/

locate libflashplayer.so

To check if firefox uses Shockwave Flash from Adobe please type in the url (address) bar of firefox:
about:plugins

or take a look in the main menu of Firefox
extras -> addons -> plugins

Example looks like this:
Shockwave Flash 10.0 r22

####

ami, sorry I don't see an indication of slow, broken internet connection or the need of complete reinstallation [Windows habit].
Why (see Michaels former answers)
- no problem to download packages and viewing websites
- Intrepid installation from CD
- sources.list is clean
- graphic card+driver are recognized

However, as Michael mentioned, there are problems with Compiz and juddern video outputs, my respond was - We will fix this also.
But anyway, the next upgrade in a few days will be to Jaunty, it's an amazing work of developers and seems to run flawless for many already.

Enjoy Ubuntu

@ Sam. Incorrect. This is a different computer. It had Windows xp or some version of windows. I could finally watch videos on my computer--trouble free but as windows is want to do, it soon became disfunctional with fatal errors, crashes, and existentially frightening run arounds from one window to another and back to the first window to the inevitable crash. I got a CD in the mail with Intrepid and replaced windows. I had hoped that this newer system would not be like the other Ubuntus I had used on my previous computer, but alas I have the same problem with streaming videos as I had before. I actually had a couple of techies in a bar roll their eyes and say that the powers that be i.e. corporate America don't want us to be able to watch video with upstart systems like Ubuntu. One of those techies was the one whom originally told me about Linux and offered to install Ubuntu for a mere $75, which he did and I was happy except for the fact that I couldn't watch certain videos such as HuLu or The Daily Show. In summary, this computer with this Verizon DSL has played entire Episodes of the Colbert Report and the Daily Show with out any snags with Windows. I shall remove Gnash and swfdec now. Muchas Gracias.

@ Sam: Sorry. The above message was partly in response to Ami.

 Now the Adobeflash is operating but just as bad for some and worst for others. Probably better off with version which I originally had. I did find Shockwave Flash 10.0 r22 in add ons. Should I wait for Jaunty before trying anything else. If I do wait for Jaunty should I wear a Pith Helmut so he'll recognise me? Sorry. They all sound like MI-5 code names.

     "...Adobe, this is Shockwave. Do you read me Adobe...I need a 50 on Intrepid now. ...sorry old chap we're done for here. You'll have to contact Jaunty for that 50. God save the queen..."

Perhaps I need a break from this. Thank you. --MJK

Michael thanks for the input and congratulation! You've installed Adobe flashplayer, great.
No comment on techies in a bar rolling their eyes.
But:
it's true HULU isn't accessable from non US IP addresses
http://www.file-upload.eu/view-1596591/hulu.png.html
and it's also true to work around this. Although this is off topic and you may ask the 'techies' how this can be done.
Daily Show and Colbert Report are definetely accessable from Europe.
btw. whenever you need further explanations on details about general terms I assume you know about Wikipedia
e.g.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ip_address

And yes, please wait for Jaunty. There will appear a symbol on your panel, like as usual when it tells you that updates are available. But - be patient and wait about two to four weeks until you take this offer. In the meantime 'bugs' will be still fixed and the biggest run on downloading is over.
http://www.ubuntu.com/getubuntu/upgrading

That some videos with Adobe flashplayer don't appear flawless is the credit of Compiz, in my opinion. But as I've mentioned before, please ask a new question for this issue, to make it easier for others to follow and find answers about the same issue. Please provide details about which Ubuntu, graphic card, System, as you did above.

About Ubuntu names and releases:
Each release has its codename from A... to Z...
Except the LongTermSupport's (LTS), e.g. 8.04 [Hardy] regular releases are every sixth months.
The version number states the month and year of a release.
e.g. Intrepid 8.10 was released in October 2008.

Reference:
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/whatisubuntu
http://www.ubuntu.com/products/ubuntu/release-cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu

Enjoy your time and relax.

@ Sam: Congratulations? I used to be able to watch some videos. Now they are at best extremely slow to download or buffer. Can't I just get rid of this one and put the original one back. It didn't work right, but it was at least faster than this version.

>Probably better off with version which I originally had

Oh, that was a misinterpretation from my site, sorry, thaught Adobe original was the originally.
But, I'd like to keep up my congratulations, because of your cooperation and in the best possible interest of learning something new.

Hi Michael -

> I got a CD in the mail with Intrepid and replaced windows

Good to hear you didn't arrive at Intrepid via a direct upgrade from Gutsy. That would have been the cause of a lot of subsequent problems if it hadn't just failed outright.

( Sam wrote: )

> I don't see an indication of slow, broken internet connection ...

http://forum.soft32.com/windows/Youtube-videos-stutter-buffer-ftopict342805.html

Perhaps not; video "stutter" can be caused by lots of things - a slow or intermittently-slow connection is just one possibility. But it's suspicious that the same "stutter" problem occurred on two different computers. Fortunately, it's fairly easy to check:

http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp

Michael, if Sam's correct, you can rule out your internet connection by running the above test. It only takes a minute or two, but to obtain information you can rely on it'd be best to collect results of several runs made at various times. Unfortunately, it's not at all unusual for an internet service provider to deliver 1500 kbps ( kilo-bits-per-second ) on one run of the test and just a tenth or even a twentieth of that speed an hour or a day later.

Basically, you'll want to see numbers that are *consistently* within these specs:

Speed: 512 kbps download is bare minimum for streaming video, 1024 kbps is prefereable,
Quality of Service (QOS): should be above 80%, higher is better.

( The other two metrics this speed test reports, "Max Pause", and "Round Trip Time" are less important for buffered video. Those metrics are more applicable to activities that need instantaneous real-time response, like internet "phone calls". Still, you'd like to see those numbers below 100 mSec and 250 mSec, respectively. )

Michael, if you do find that the numbers for your connection are low, or intermittently-low, the next step would be to contact Verizon and have them open a service ticket to test the connection. You'll be more likely to convince them to do so if you can quote the results of the speed tests you've run. Some users have apparently found that just turning their modem off and back on again has corrected a problem like this. I have no idea about that, whether it might cause a new problem (or even damage hardware), but if you decide to try that, make sure your computer is shut off first. See the second link I provided in this post for an instance of this re Verizon.

Alright, then ....

If your internet connection's not at fault, you could just wait for the Jaunty release, as Sam suggests, especially if you're out of time and patience. But I'd probably want look at one last thing if it were my PC. I'd want to find out whether the computer might be "preoccupied" with some errant process that's sucking up all its processing power so that there's not enough left to play videos smoothly.

Fortunately, that's very quick and simple to do. Select,

System > Administration > System Monitor

from the top menu bar on your Gnome desktop. I'd suggest you try viewing the System Monitor's "Resources" tab both before and at the same time you're playing a video in Totem and/or Firefox. Even if the video barely plays at all System Monitor will still provide useful diagnostic information that's pretty intuitive to understand, since the dynamic graphs it shows correspond in real-time to the actions you undertake on the computer.

There's a lovely seven-minute video on YouTube about what the display screens in System Monitor mean, btw. Given your video problem, I know you probably won't be able to access it at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj0c6cxT6_U , but perhaps if you search for Yj0c6cxT6_U via Totem's YouTube search box? But even if you can't watch that, you can still get a pretty good intuitive idea about whether your system might be getting "maxed out" by some errant process just by looking at the "Resources" tab in System Monitor.

Re this comment,

> I used to be able to watch some videos. Now they are
> at best extremely slow to download or buffer. Can't I just
> get rid of this one and put the original one back. It didn't
> work right, but it was at least faster than this version.

I'd suggest that you try the things I've recommended here before "going back" to the adobe-flashplugin from the Canonical ( "partner" ) repository. I'm not absolutely convinced that the Canonical package really delivers a more-current plugin than the one you downloaded and installed directly from Adobe using your browser, although that *is* the message that pops up when one tries to install the .deb archive from Adobe's web page.

If it were me I'd go back to the Canonical-repository version ultimately, I think, but would use the version that's already installed to complete the diagnostic steps in this post, first. I'd be worried that an attempt at this point to un-install the Adobe-website plugin version and re-install the Canonical-repository version might fail, and then you'd not be able to investigate your system's resource utilization load using the System Monitor while a video was trying to play. Does that make sense?

@ Michael, no need to look at the following links. I've included them only for subsequent readers who may want to investigate further.

References

http://broadbandforum.in/airtel-broadband/28667-minimum-bandwidth-streaming/
http://paragonhost.wordpress.com/2006/11/23/what-is-quaility-of-service-qos-why-do-we-need-it/

Speed Tests

http://www.auditmypc.com/speedtest.asp ( requires only java & javascript )
http://www2.spin.net.au/testmyspeed ( requires only java & javascript )
http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp ( ditto, but give more info. my favorite )
http://www.auditmypc.com/broadband-speed-test.asp ( requires flash )

Note that if you use the Aussie test, the second speed test listed just above, you'll need to multiply the reported result by 8 to compare with other tests, since that test reports in kiloBYTES per second, not the more usual kiloBITS per second.

cheers, - ami

( ami_nakata wrote: )

> See the second link I provided in this post for an instance of this re Verizon.

Oops! I meant "the FIRST link". If you do find you have speed problems, Michael, it'd be worth reading that entire thread, at http://forum.soft32.com/windows/Youtube-videos-stutter-buffer-ftopict342805.html , since it's specific to Verizon, and since it's by no means a unique report among Verizon's customers: There's no way anyone is going to see video that does anything other than "stutter" when his ISP is only delivering the 130 - 240 kbps Verizon was feeding to that user's PC.

By the way, be very careful if you do "cycle the power" on your DSL modem. There are evidently some particular instructions for doing that safely somewhere on Verizon's help pages. You can't just turn it off and then right back on again; that won't work, and could potentially damage hardware.

Hope some of this makes a difference.

cheers, - ami

@ anyone -

A caveat, re the System Monitor program:

The YouTube video I recommended re using the Gnome desktop's System Monitor program illustrates how to halt or "kill" what are called "processes". On GNU/Linux systems, every running program is associated with one or more "process".

Sometimes - quite rarely - one does need to "kill" a process, as when a terminal window locks up, for example, and you can neither type anything into it or close its window with your mouse. Such a thing is an abnormal occurrence, and when it does happen, it's often the result of a bug in a program.

*** But don't stop or kill a process just to try it out, don't kill a process if you don't know exactly what you're doing.***

You could accidentally kill the process that accepts input from the keyboard, or that allows data to be written to the hard drive. The process would probably be reinitiated at a restart of one's computer, but there'd be the possibility that such a thing could cause unstable system behavior subsequently, or even prevent a normal restart from occurring at all.

@ Michael:

I wanted to let you know that my own internet connection was averaging between 130 and 60 kbps for around two hours today, not a whole lot faster than the old 56k telehone-line modems people used to use, and completely unsuitable for streaming video, or downloads of any size, although not necessarily very noticeable for just browsing web pages, at least at the upper end of that range. Right now the connection is running at over 3,000 kbps, nearly 30 times faster, on average. Nothing on my PC has changed during this time; no software changes, no hardware changes.

This kind of variability isn't *at all* uncommon. Some ISPs are worse than others - mine is pretty bad, actually - but all of them "throttle" (back) the download speed when more and more users come on line and network traffic spikes. The only alternative would be to just stop allowing people to connect after a certain load-level threshold had been reached on their servers, and they'd never do that. And there are additional reasons, besides just more people going online at certain times of the day, that an ISP would throttle your speed. And reasons, too, that the effective speed of one of the many servers your connection to, say, the servers for The Daily Show, employs as an intermediary "hop" might be constricted, too.

A lot of variables affect the speed at which bits get delivered to your DSL modem or router. ISP contracts - unlike their advertisements - almost all say something like "we provide download speeds UP TO 1.5 kbps, but don't guarantee any absolute minimum". It's kind of like the situation with water pressure in many countries, sometimes a trickle, sometimes a gush.

The point is that you might want to try a speed test in the middle of the night, if you happen to wake up, and compare the results to what you see at, say, 7:00 PM or 9:00 PM. It'd be nice to have a script to do that automatically, actually, to initiate a speed test every two hours for, say, up to three days, and record the results in a log file. Someone out there on the net probably has written one, I imagine.

Anyway, from what I've seen of user's speed reports on sites like DSLReports.com, cable seems to exhibit much less speed variability than DSL does, btw.

cheers, - ami

@ Ami : Test results came up with 196.2 and 196.5 (2 tests) Kbps. I f this is too slow, why did it work flawlessly with Windows XP? The systems monitor didn't seem to show any dramatic changes when a video was playing. Cpus 1 and 2 alternate from as low as 1% to close to 50%. There may be more frequent peaks during a video--nothing drastic.

 I'll watch the YouTube video later. I can go to it from your link. To watch the 7 minute video I will have to play it through which will take maybe 15 minutes (it was faster when I had the version from the Vatican--oops--I mean the Canonical Repository, so I think there is a difference.) Then I can hit replay and watch it without the st-st-stuttering. This doesn't work on other video sources though. It would be ironic if I were to have to get Road Runner since I stopped doing business with the cable company because I was sick of paying money for a lot mindless dribble. I loved the Jon Stewart/Steven Colbert hour however and had thought I would be able to watch catch it on line, albeit week old episodes. I hope I don't need to get back with the cable company in order to do that.

Speaking of irony and Corporations and I don't want to do business with, I will try to contact Verizon regarding Kbps issues. It is always a pleasure trying to communicate with one of the world's largest communications companies !

                                                                                          A rain of thanks--MJK

Hi Michael -

> Test results came up with 196.2 and 196.5 (2 tests) Kbps

The 'point two" and "point five" in the two respective DSL speed results you're reporting give me pause. These are *download* speeds, right, not upload speeds? The numbers associated with the "green bar" rather than the "violet bar" at the http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp speed test, that is? Try the slightly less informative test at http://www.auditmypc.com/speedtest.asp if you're not sure. The results presented there are more clearly marked as to which is the upload speed and which is download speed.

I ask for two reasons: (1) When I run the test only the upload speed is reported with a trailing decimal; the download speed shows up only as a whole number, and (2) The numbers you saw are typical for *upload* speeds, which are always much slower - that's an intentional "feature" on the part of nearly all ISPs.

If you're truly getting below 200 kbps delivered to your DSL modem or router by Verizon for *downloads* then, yes, that is absolutely too slow to watch streaming video satisfactorily. One of the links I posted above, http://broadbandforum.in/airtel-broadband/28667-minimum-bandwidth-streaming/ , discusses this. The people on that thread know from direct experience what the minimum download speed that works for streaming video is. In India, where they were writing from, "broadband" internet access is 256 kbps. The math of streaming video bears this out, too, and being the tech-geek that I am, I'm going to include some (to me) interesting arithmetic about the demand that streaming video places upon bandwidth in a subsequent post.

> If this is too slow, why did it work flawlessly with Windows XP?

You're asking why Windows XP delivered fine streaming video performance at the slow 196 kbps (kilobits/sec) download speed you're getting, while Ubuntu delivers barely-watchable, "stuttering" video at that speed, right?

The short answer is that it didn't. Windows XP can't do that; no currently-existing PC, regardless of its operating system, can smoothly play streaming video at the resolution we're talking about here, using that slow an internet connection.

Oh, I certainly understand that you were able to watch streaming video with no problems before you installed Ubuntu; I'm certainly not doubting you in the least. But your question assumes that when you had your XP machine connected it was operating with the same slow data feed, and that's absolutely not a supportable assumption. Your DSL modem or router was certainly delivering a significantly higher data rate to your PC at that time.

Did you look at the link I included above about another Verizon customer's streaming video troubles? ( http://forum.soft32.com/windows/Youtube-videos-stutter-buffer-ftopict342805.html ) That was a *Windows only* user whose video started to "stutter" for no apparent reason. My point is that his streaming video stutter had nothing to do with Ubuntu, since he wasn't using it at all, nor even with any change to his hardware or software, because he hadn't made any. The problem wasn't due to any change in his PC, it was caused entirely by either a fault in Verizon's network, or by a deliberate action on Verizon's part. Unfortunately, such apparently random drops in delivered speed are very common; users report them all the time on web sites like DSLReports.com, and elsewhere, and 90% of them have nothing to do with any change on the user's side of the router or modem.

I know it'll feel hard to accept, because we humans naturally infer causality based on temporal order ( I'm counting on that phrase for my Nobel, I want you to know ) but it's just very unlikely that the video stutter problem you experienced after switching to Ubuntu had any more to do with Ubuntu than did the stutter problem the Windows user on Verizon experienced. In both cases the problem was not that there was anything wrong with the PC or the operating system, the problem was Verizon. Not a satisfying answer, and frustrating to have to attribute it to coincidence, but it's the most likely explanation.

That was the short answer. I'll explain more fully if you'll verify that the speeds you reported are correct for downloads, and offer a few suggestions for getting Verizon to correct the problem without giving you (any more) grief.

( Any Verizon DSL reps out there who'd like to jump in at this point? )

By the way, do you remember what download speed your plan with Verizon was advertised to deliver? The entry-level plan is usually 768 kbps, although 1.5 to 2 Mbits/sec rate plans have become more usual in recent years, if that helps you recall.

cheers, - ami

Hi Michael -

>> If this is too slow, why did it work flawlessly with Windows XP?
>
> ... The short answer is that it didn't.

As I said above, the only explanation is that your ISP was delivering data to your PC at rate well above the 196 kbps you're seeing now. So the relevant question now is to ask what happened on their end to cause your service to degrade that badly?

It's trite to say so, but what happened on your ISP's end to cause your download speed to become so slow was either an accident or the result of an intentional decision on their part. I hope it was an accident, but the other's a possibility, too, as I'll explain.

It could be that some backhoe operator digging a drain trench damaged a cable and data traffic was automatically routed around that, via a slower link, to compensate. I do find it hard to understand how an ISP wouldn't know almost immediately when the transfer rate on part of its network had slowed to such a crawl, in a case like that. But I'm no network engineer, and perhaps I'm wrong to think there's enough "intelligence", enough real-time network monitoring capability built into their infrastructure, to accomplish that.

A few rather unattractive explanations are possible, too, and perhaps merit mention given the "interesting" business policies the U.S. telcos have sometimes operated by in the past. I know it has been widely reported, for example, that some ISPs deliver a higher data rate for the first few months of a user's contract term, and lower it later, hoping customers won't notice and complain.

If a user doesn't watch streaming video on-line, he probably *won't* notice. Even if he does notice a slowing in his web browsing, it would never occur to the average user that he could run an independent speed test and compare the results to what was promised. I don't know whether any ISPs really do this, but you're not the only customer who's ever seen a sharp drop in his download speed. Read the ISP reviews on DSLReports.com, if you're interested. It's one of the most common complaints made.

( I have no affiliation with them, of course, but I'll also mention that DSLReports.com collects ISP reviews, by (U.S.) postal code, based upon the results of speed tests run by users right on DSLReports own web pages. This is very relevant quantitative information for anyone who's thinking of switching ISPs, as you speculated you might be. And despite the site's name, they review all variety of broadband ISPs, not just DSL providers. I'm sure there must be other sites that do the same thing; I just don't happen to be aware of any of them. )

Or if you want to consider a wilder possibility, I suppose an unscrupulous ISP could throttle back the available transfer speed when its routers notice a connection is being made with a different operating system that was used previously, and could keep the speed low until the subscriber complains. Most users wouldn't complain; they'd naturally attribute the drop to the change they made themselves, and not blame the ISP: "Gee, I like my new Mac, but it seems slower on the web than my old PC."

Such a policy might be a little more plausible concerning new Linux users, I suppose, given that the larger ISPs, at least, don't like Linux or Linux users. I have to admit they might have a some justification for that: GNU/linux users probably are somewhat more likely to operate torrents or host their own web server, both bandwidth-intensive activities, than Mac or Windows users are. ( Torrents are a perfectly legitimate file sharing technology that nevertheless consumes a lot of an ISPs available bandwidth, and is often used to facilitate illegal music downloads. ) So it's possible that an ISP might throttle down a subscriber's speed when they see a switch to Linux has occurred, as a kind of preemptive strike, at least until a user complains. Unlikely, but perhaps possible.

In any case, if you were to connect a Windows machine to your DSL now, and the data rate remained the same as you're reporting here, you'd also see a severe a "stutter" problem on that machine, without the least doubt. You might obtain a *slightly* better result at the same connection speed on the Windows box, perhaps as much as 5% -10% better, since the flash plugin for Windows has been reported by some to be a little more efficient than the one for GNU/Linux. I've never seen objective evidence for that, myself, but perhaps it's so.

There's another possibility, one that would explain the drop in your rate as deliberate on your ISP's part, but not as anything sinister, nevertheless. If it's not a network error on Verizon's side, then I'd guess that you came up against an "interval cap" on your cumulative data transfer.

They don't advertise it, but all ISPs enforce an upward limit, a "cap", on the cumulative amount of data any one user is allowed to download during a given interval. If you tried to set up your own server farm at home, for example, to host a web site that serves 1,000,000 page views a day, you'd find your ISP would shut your bandwidth down to a trickle in about a minute. Similarly, if a person watches even a moderate amount of online video, the corresponding demand on "bandwidth" becomes large very, very fast.

The existing infrastructure that ISPs provide, and the infrastructure of the internet itself, were just not designed to deliver the bandwidth needed for everyone to watch "TV" online. That infrastructure was designed to deliver essentially static web pages, a process that involves at least many dozens of times less bandwidth than streaming video requires. That's one of the reasons that companies everywhere are replacing their old copper wire with fiber-optic transmission lines that can carry thousands of times more data.

It's important to understand that just browsing basically static web pages involves much, much less data transfer than streaming video does. That explains, btw, why most users don't typically notice much of a problem when their internet connection speed drops intermittently. It's not like anyone is going to see web pages load much more slowly when, say, only 250 kbps is being delivered to his PC. (Large, bit-mapped images like digitized high-resolution photos, or scanned documents, might visibly load in stages, but these are exceptions.) The 1.5 Mbit rate that most American households pay their ISPs for is three or four times the speed necessary for normal web page browsing, in other words. That speed can be "degraded" by a factor 75% or more, and users who just browse web pages that don't contain a lot of images - 80% of current users, in other words - probably won't notice much difference.

Besides, web browsing places only an intermittent or "bursty" load on bandwidth. As far as an ISP's servers and bandwidth are concerned, there's a lot of "wait time" involved between data bursts since humans sit and read a web page for at least a few seconds before asking a server to deliver another one. The data transfer required for streaming video is essentially continuous, by comparison.

The following might put the contrast between the demands that browsing web pages puts on an ISP's servers and the demands that watching online video makes of those same servers into a clearer perspective: Watching online video is the approximate equivalent of a user clicking fast enough to load 24 web pages every second, and expecting each one to load fully and display properly.

The ISPs keep as mum as they can, btw, about what the (say) monthly limit for data transfer at a given account level is, i.e. about when users who pay for a certain level of service can anticipate running into a "cap" on their download speed. I don't recall the details, but I think it was Verizon that Consumer Reports magazine reported had been sued in New York State, and that was subsequently required by the court to explicitly dislcose the formula for the cap in their user contracts with New York residents. Most ISPs don't disclose that, nor will they necessarily inform a user when his access speed has been downgraded due to what they deem "excessive use". Their marketing people like to be able to maintain the "unlimited use" fiction in their advertising, I imagine.

I've included a couple of paragraphs below the math that informs the problem. Strictly optional, read it only if it interests you.

cheers, - ami

In fairness to the ISPs: The math of streaming video

Suppose your screen is 1280 x 800 pixels, and each pixel corresponds to only one byte of data ( that's 8 bits, which would allow only 256 colors to be rendered, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_depth ). The "refresh rate" we humans need a display screen to employ, in order to trick ours brains into "seeing" continuous motion is 24 frames per second. That would mean that a buffered video stream that's to be viewed in "full screen mode" needs to deliver an average of 1280 x 800 x 8 x 24 bits to your router every second, a required average transmission rate of 196,608 kbps. Yup, that's a required download rate of 24 megabytes of data delivered every second, and we haven't even considered the data transfer necessary to provide matching audio!

Okay, that greatly exaggerates the case, for various reasons, some of which I'm probably not even aware of. But it does illustrate the difficulty of accommodating streaming video within the existing infrastructure of the internet. And it should give you a little more respect for what "codecs" (compression/decompression algorithms) like flash and mp4 do. Through "lossy" data compression, decreasing resolution, taking advantage of fancy pants rendering algorithms that your computer's video subsystem affords, and a whole bag of related tricks, the approximate effect of delivering that much data is obtained via a pipe" (internet connection) that's typically spec'd ( i.e specified, designed ) to carry no more than 1/16th that much data, the 1.5 Meg/second internet connection that's the most common for domestic use in the United States.

Hi Michael -

> It would be ironic if I were to have to get Road Runner ... (snip)
> I hope I don't need to get back with the cable company ...

I'd be quite surprised if it were to become necessary for you to switch from DSL to cable. I expect your current ISP will be able to bring your connection speed back up, especially if you approach the problem with them in a fairly sophisticated way. I've included a few suggestions about that in this message. And let me know via individual e-mail if you need or would like any additional help dealing with them to get the service you're paying for.

> Speaking of irony and Corporations and I don't want to do
> business with, I will try to contact Verizon regarding Kbps
> issues. It is always a pleasure trying to communicate with
> one of the world's largest communications companies !

If it's just a system error that caused the problem, they'll probably be pretty good about it. But if your speed was throttled back because you reached an interval cap on cumulative data transfers, you might have to be more aggressive. They probably won't tell you if that's the case, and perhaps it wouldn't be the most effective point for you to inquire about, either.

In any case, you want your ISP to "open a (repair) ticket" - you should use that phrase - to test your service, diagnose the problem, and correct it. That hands the problem off from "customer service" to the real technicians in the network service group, people who are probably much more highly skilled and better informed. You might get some resistance; with many or most ISPs, it's the customer service department's goal to minimize such hand-offs, if possible. It's expensive to get a network technician to fix a problem or even communicate with a customer directly. To avoid that, the customer service reps might tell you any amount of nonsense to "explain" why they shouldn't open a repair ticket, and may try to blame the problem on anything that won't require them to do so.

Blaming a very low bit rate problem on using "non-standard software" is commonly done. I've been told that myself, not just about Linux, but even about Firefox, as if it could be ten or twenty times slower than Internet Explorer. ( It's faster than IE on Vista, btw. )

Some ISPs even have an official "we don't support linux" policy, not just an informal one. That's for business reasons, or because they don't know how to answer questions concerning it, not because of any incompatability. For example, and as this https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/wine/+question/68097 thread discusses, AT&T reps routinely say their internet service won't work with Linux, which is simply not true.

Some part of your own ISP's system certainly knows you're using Linux: that data would be collected by their routers every time you connect, but it's not so likely that a customer service rep will have that information accessible. And because reps tend to blame whatever they can besides their network, and since they might say, "Oh, Linux isn't supported with our service," I wouldn't recommend that you disclose it unless you're asked directly.

And as I think I mentioned, it'll help if you have speed test results in front of you, from several different times, to back up your complaint: several tests over several days would be the ideal. Also, I'd probably not specifically mention that it's streaming video you're having trouble with - I'd just cite the speed tests and say that your system response is much slower than you signed up for and are continuing to pay for.

Also, if you're connected to a rep who seems obtuse, who won't listen well, or can't seem to respond outside of a rote script, I've always found it's better just to find an excuse to end the call, and try again later.

And I've likewise found that I get a better result, especially when subsequent calls become necessary, if I say right at the start of the call, in a low-key way, "I always like to make a note of the person I'm talking with, do you have a rep number, or phone extension that I can scratch down along with your first name." They'll always tell you that, and if you reply, "And may I write down what call center you're in, as well?", you establish a bit of "street cred" and let them know, nicely, that they might be quoted on a subsequent call, and that they're likely to come up in conversation if the problem doesn't get solved and has to be dealt with by a supervisor. I've never had anyone object to that.

Besides, if a subsequent call does become necessary to solve a problem, you're going to sound a lot more convincing if you can say, "No, I already discussed that at length with John in the Miami call center, and it's not a factor," than if you say, "Some rep told me that couldn't be right."

You could prepare a "knockdown blow" in advance, if you chose, by asking a friend with a Mac or a Windows laptop to come over and connect to your DSL, if you can figure out how to make that happen without too much pain and suffering. If the results of a speed test are the same or very close between the two machines, and both are low, there really wouldn't be much a "customer service rep" from your ISP could come up with to avoid admitting the problem was on their side of the router or DSL modem. ( Speeds can change dramatically from moment to moment, though, so you'd want to try to perform the two tests as close to each other as possible. )

If you could swing that, it'd both be worthwhile in itself and would absolutely keep you from getting into a situation where some relatively unskilled rep is telling you to try lots of expedients on your computer that will have no effect on the problem.

If they still give you resistance then I think the line to take would be something like this: "I signed up for a service level of 1.5 Megabits download speed and agreed to pay $X per month for that. But you're only delivering 196 kbps, just 13% of what you advertise for my service level. Either deliver what I signed up for or give me an 87% discount to reflect what you're actually providing," Worked for me, with my own current ISP, despite the draconian contract I'd signed. :-)

Hope I haven't been overly directive in making these suggestions, it's just that I've probably initiated a couple of hundred distinct service requests and change orders with various datacomm providers overall, and I know how hard it can be to get a successful result.

All this has taken much longer to sort out than you expected it would, I know, so no rush reporting back on this. But I'd be very pleased to know how things go with your ISP, and that you were actually seeing properly streaming video on your Ubuntu box, before you mark this problem "solved".

cheers, -ami

@ ami

Holy Hardy Heron! What a great bunch of information. It gets to the very essence of why I have Ubuntu in the first place. I have become fed up with just being asked to fork over money to corporations who have no ears to hear my problems or complaints, whose raison d' etre is getting more, and who will bamboozle the would be self-advocate with a maelstrom of mindless, meandering, menus meant to wear you down so you give up. When I got my first Linux a couple of computers ago, I listened to my tech guy negotiating with Verizon's tech guy who wasn't willing to co-operate with the installation, but eventually forked over the access code or whatever it was upon realizing that my tech guy couldn't be bullshited. Thanks to the new weapons you have given me, I look forward to finding out why my " New faster speeds up to 1Mbps--34 times faster than 28.8 Kbps dial-up " high speed internet connection is so slow. The simple test that you recommended shows an upload of 400 and a download of 191, but Verizon doesn't include a minimum speed in its advertisement. In fairness I have to say that my one experience with Verizon tech support was very positive. The man on the phone was very patient with me ( I knew nothing) and even got an IBM guy on the line. It took 11/2 hours., but the problem got solved.

I just ran another speed test: Upload still 400; download 177. Hey, it's faster than dial-up. I think.

Thank you for the "How to Deal With Your IPS " primer, and also for the thoughtful explaination of how it all works. I work with electricity sometimes and I think this is analogous to amperage and the difference between an electric shaver and a blow dryer. This helped a bit--sorry, I know that must be old, but in the cyber world I am a newborn.--MJK

Hi,
this - upload of 400 and a download of 191 - is silly, hence ami pointed in the right direction. I didn't imagine if someone mentiones DSL, that such a slow connection is possible.
In practice an upgrade to Jaunty will take hours instead of 30 minutes.
You may quote their value page and reclaim.
>Speeds and service availability vary. HSI will be provisioned at 768 Kbps or up to 1 Mbps [1.5Mbps or up to 3.0 Mbps] or [5.0Mbps or up to 7.1Mbps] based on Verizon line qualification requirements. Availability subject to final confirmation by Verizon.<

Although there is no ojective measuring with one speedtest on a certain page. The monitoring can include a variety of pages and time for testing, serious pages will mention that. But if the average looks like above it's of course not acceptable in the year 2009.

I just tried a different speed test--178.1 and 179.4. Does my ISP favor windows? My previous computer with ME streamed OK until an earlier Ubuntu (6.10 and then an upgrade to 7.something) was installed. Anyway...I'll call Verizon and demand the opening of a repair ticket. Thanks---MJK

This is odd. I "power cycled " my modem and was happy to see my speed go beyond 1 Mbps, so I tried a YouTube video. It worked perfectly, so I tried a video on The Daily Show's website. It didn't work at all. I would see the ghost of a buffering window for a nanosecond and then blackness. Next I tried TDS on HuLu and it worked fine. I wanted to try some short films on a PBS website this morning, but could not because my Down load speed is back down in the 170s and the recommended power cycle/reboot had no effect this time. Several speed tests show a both speeds to be in the 170s now. I have been to busy to deal with Verizon's tech support but I surely will be. So... the original problem (not able to watch videos such as Hulu or TDS) is partially solved, but clearly I need to address the anemic download speed issue before I can do anything else. Thanks.---MJK

Hi Michael -

Thanks for your kind words earlier; you're very welcome. I've had fun trying to help figure this out, and it feels good to see that we've made some substantial progress.

> It worked perfectly, so I tried a video on The Daily Show's website.
> It didn't work at all. I would see the ghost of a buffering window
> for a nanosecond and then blackness.

Your experience after power-cycling your modem *is* odd. I wonder what was going on re the Daily Show's website? Had the speed "slumped" at that point, so much so that the site refused to even try to serve the video to your PC? You'd think the site would at least *try* to play the video, even if slowly, i.e. in a "stuttering" way.

I wonder if the site might perform a quick test to make sure the connection is satisfactory before it starts to stream the video? That's possible, I suppose. No one really wants his server tied up for a long period delivering data (videos) at a very slow speed... An analogy would be an oil refinery refusing to load a tanker truck that can only accept a flow rate that's a fraction of that which other trucks can handle: "I can't have your old truck sit here filling for three hours when I can fill six normal trucks in that same time, so I'm not even going to let you connect to the hose," if you follow me.

Oh! I don't suppose the problem with viewing the video directly from the web site for "The Daily Show" could be something as dumb as cookies settings, could it?

Most sites don't actually stream their own video, they contract that out to a firm that specializes in the service. If you happen to have your browser set to refuse third-party cookies, the firm that actually serves the video to your PC wouldn't be able to use cookies to control the process, to control such things as remembering where to start up again, after you've pressed a "pause" button, for example.

Most "first party" sites will usually inform you if they need to place a cookie on your PC and your settings prohibit that. I've found that this is much less likely to be done for third-party cookies, however, they're typically not as communicative.

If you're using Firefox, you can check this via,

Edit > Preferences > Privacy

I have this set to "Accept cookies", "Accept third-party cookies", and "Keep until I close Firefox".

I do suspect that the overall speed problem will eventually prove to be "fully determined" by Verizon, i.e. that they'll have to change something on their side, and that what you do with your PC or DSL modem probably won't affect it. If you want to, however, we could look more closely at configuration settings on your side; network card settings, software configuration settings, and such. ( I wonder whether Verizon has any publicly-accessible diagnostic suite, e.g. a self-test or client-based test for their DSL modem, for example? ) I'd be glad to help, although now that I think about it, I suppose it'd be best to break out a new question/topic/thread for the purpose if you'd like to pursue that.

One resource that would be of use in pursuing that would be this forum, http://www.broadbandreports.net/forum/ilec,vz . ( I'm not sure how launchpad will format that URL; the "comma vee zee" needs to be included in it; you might have to include than manually if launchpad doesn't do so. ) It's a help forum specific to Verizon DSL. If nothing else, it'd be a great place to use to get an objective opinion about what Verizon reps tell you concerning the problem.

You might also like to look at http://www.dslreports.com/comments/552 , which consists of reviews of Verizon DSL.

Btw, Sam remarked upon speed tests available on the web, and I'd like to add a few comments as well. Running tests from multiple sites can provide useful information, but I think a better approach is to find a speed test based on sound design principles, and use that as one's primary benchmark. This is why I like the one I recommended to you so much, Michael.

The author of the test at http://www.auditmypc.com/internet-speed-test.asp takes great care to publish the principles he used to write it. If one just scrolls down on that same page, one can review his design comments and form an independent opinion as to their soundness. The discussion there does require a basic understanding of data communications, but that's as it should be: It's by no means simple to write an accurate test program, and a technical explanation is wholly appropriate to the subject.

I don't know the author of the program, but that presentation seems to me to reflect the best tradtion of disclosure in freely-available services on the net. Write as solid a program as you can, yes; take care to make the user interface easy to understand, yes; include features that many competing programs fail to report, yes; don't require the presence of browser plugins that aren't strictly necessary, yes; this author does all these things, and that impresses me favorably.

But what really sets his test apart, in my opinion, is how fully he documents the principles upon which it is based. He even takes the trouble to refer the interested reader to an article in a peer-reviewed research journal which discusses the theory behind it. Specifically, his test implements the design methodology for measuring DSL speed that was presented in,

Liang Cheng, Ivan Marsic
Accurate bandwidth measurement in xDSL service networks
Computer Communications, Volume 25, Issue 18, 1 December 2002, Pages 1699-1710
Abstract: http://linkinghub.elsevier.com/retrieve/pii/S0140366402001044

As the authors remark, ATM traffic shaping in asymmetric DSL does introduce some specific challenges for measuring speed. Their paper presents an elegant solution that allows DSL speed to be measured accurately, and the speed tests on www.auditmypc.com incorporate that. Do the speed tests offered on other sites do so? Who knows? They typically don't disclose their design principles.

cheers, - ami

No. It isn't cookies. This morning, TDS's site will play with stuttering. This morning's test results: 355.3 and 360.4 Kbps so it plays crappily when with an anemic bit stream and not at all with a healthy torrent of bits. That is a mystery that I hope will not have to be solved on my behalf, but if it does, it will be a new question.

I have been using the above mentioned speed test--I call it the WTC because it sadly reminds me of the twin towers, and Verizon has run their own test which concurs with its results. The rep had me use it last night as he went through the list of usual suspects. I won't burden you with details. I will go to that help forum on Verizon DSL. Thank you.

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Tks for sharing.But I ofen use Wondershare Youtube Downloader to download Youtube,
Official download address:http://www.download-streaming-video.com/youtube-downloader/#137